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Old 07-04-2019, 04:30 PM   #21
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I think there will be strong opinions here one way or the other for both union and non union paths. I’d be willing to bet it’s not much different than online reviews for products and companies. Yes, there is some luck involved, but much in life depends upon what you put in.
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Old 07-04-2019, 04:32 PM   #22
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You where there in Texas back in 1957?
Here in St. Louis, for ibew, "Henry's Boy" which is a term that describes "sons" "grandsons" "nephews" etc that drop out. For the actual "Henry's boy" it was 3 times. How do you defend that? Knowing that others, if allowed the opportunity wouldn't have needed a 2nd and 3rd chance. Back in 1992 I had 3-ibew local-1 contractors that wanted to hire me, but they weren't allowed to. I was not allowed to test, (hands on or written) or interview or stand before a board ever. How do you defend that? So what was I supposed to do, be a carpenter or something? At my shop today, we have a 60yr guy from St. Louis who went from high school, to Ranken Tech which has been around since 1907, from the same location since 1907. This 60yr guy then got hire at Guarantee Electric which is a local-1 contractor in St. Louis since 1904. There he worked under a "temporary work permit". He liked working for them and GUARANTEE ELECTRIC WANTED HIM TO DO AN APPRENTICESHIP. However, ibew local-l said no and he had to go. Without ever testing/interviewing he was forced out by local-1. He never got back in and worked elsewhere. How do you defend that? Eventually coming to my shop 2 years ago, because Crane America (who he was working for) went out of business. We are very fortunate to have him. We've had some local-1 electricians come and go and stay and quite frankly some of them are "marginal" employees. Oh sure they're good installers but a little dangerous with a volt/ohm meter and lost with out prints or as-builds. Several years ago I read an article in a pub called "EC". I believe it to be Electrical Contractors news or something. Sachs Electric of St. Louis stated that it was having a hard time coming up with decent Electrical Foremans in the St. Louis area and that there would be a shortage today. Sachs even rumored to consider closing it's electrical unit in the St. Louis area. Why? Could it be they are stuck with what ibew gives them? How do you defend that?

When ibew denies you the right to work for an ibew contractor, does that mean ibew has the right to deny you from working in the electrical industry? How do you defend that? ibew has been convicted of unfair hiring practices going all the way back to 1940 (look it up). ibew was a leading factor for Federal and State governments to invent Affirmative action, which screws people like me, because "sons" and POS "sons" always get in. How do you defend that? Today, 2019 ibew local-1 thru the Airport Electric Shop steward, who has since left, stated that local-1 is willing to represent us for free or we can go down to it's hall and go to work right away. The 60yr old guy and me just looked at each other and back to the local-1 guy and laughed. That's rich, why would we want to do that? Why go down to your hall today. Get assigned to some 31yr old foreman that's lost and sweating bullets trying to get a job done. Pay full dues knowing we're not eligible for retirement pay/health care because we don't have an ibew journeyman's card, which are based on NEPOTISM.


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I was referring to when they showed up here.
I feel sorry for your liver.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:17 PM   #23
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Interesting that you got the same search results for Chesapeake, OH that I got when I searched Chesapeake, VA. What confuses me further is why i was not associated with the Alexandria office, closer to Chesapeake VA Geographically.
The Alexandria office might be a political office only.
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:25 PM   #24
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I was referring to when they showed up here.
I feel sorry for your liver.
Where is here? Southeast Florida?
Not very accurate when it comes to facts and details.
At best your second sentence is childish.
I can see you came up the easy way, did someone pave the path for you?
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Old 07-05-2019, 02:02 PM   #25
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I get where you are coming from. Where there's power there is corruption and the "right to work" is valuable. Something I learned at a young age is that somtimes a guy will not pay you for a job if he can for a variety of reasons. The union part is what I think attracts a lot of guys. Also all the Henry's boys gotta go somewhere, no one ever learned anything without messing up first. That being said it is unfortunate you have not had experiences to deem the IBEW a meritocracy.

Stiffneck, when you started did you want training or just a job? I remember you telling me in another thread you didnt consider yourself engaged in a career. Myself, i could go for training, i hope the IBEW calls me on monday and says its on but what i really want is to say is "i bought this truck with this electrical job and well see where it goes from there. This is the sentiment i approach this with. I genuinely think the use and flow of electricity is cool.
I didn't realize how young you are
Of course having representation is a good thing and there's always someone who will try and rip you off. Most guys start off trying to get into ibew, including myself. But we never get that chance. That's why when someone like "southeast power" quips; guys who don't get in is because they couldn't make it or handle it. The opposite is the truth. The guys never allowed into a ibew apprenticeship, yet make into the Electrical Industry despite ibew trying to stop you. My 1rst application for local-1 resulted in a letter stating, "I would never qualify for an Electrical Apprenticeship, but if I needed work, I could go down to the Carpenters Hall and apply." No test/interview, nothing and you look at who does get in That's why it's most excellent that the Carpenters Union started Electrical Workers Local-57, here in St. Louis. Local-1 had shut down a 24 floor 289ft tall building project because local-1 didn't get to plug in the cords for some electrically powered window louvers the Carpenters installed. Local-57's largest contractor now has 50 guys in it right now and is putting in 47 miles of new cable/lighting coils/spices/fixtures, etc on runway 12L-30R at my airport In the mean time, the local-1 contractor that has a "maintenance contract" to do my work has complained that my supervisor hasn't been giving him any work So later this month, I'm supposed to escort this local-1 contractor out into the "movement area" (runway-taxiway area of an airport). We are suppose to open the signs, clean the signs, touch up paint the signs while they install a LED retro light kit. Finally, we get to install new panels and then move onto the next location. Also, I'm suppose to show them what to do with the In-pavement and Elevated Runway Guard Lights. Also, do lock-out-tag-out at the substation and maintenance lock the SCADA system. It will take us(myself/crew) longer to mentor and tutor them, as opposed to just doing it all ourselves. This co-project is still pending as to who/what/when/how it's to be done. But you can see what some of us put up with, just to do our job. Respect is a two-way street, except with ibew, never got any from them and I don't expect any anytime soon. Even after having to "teach" a local-1 foreman how to 'troubleshoot" his first 2 "science projects" because they didn't work.
Ibew is the opposite of a "meritocracy" not sure why you would think that it was. The fact that someone can make a call a re-instate an apprentice who was dropped, or a journey man who gets fired is actual sent back to the Hall.
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:25 PM   #26
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I get where you are coming from. Where there's power there is corruption and the "right to work" is valuable. Something I learned at a young age is that somtimes a guy will not pay you for a job if he can for a variety of reasons. The union part is what I think attracts a lot of guys. Also all the Henry's boys gotta go somewhere, no one ever learned anything without messing up first. That being said it is unfortunate you have not had experiences to deem the IBEW a meritocracy.

Stiffneck, when you started did you want training or just a job? I remember you telling me in another thread you didnt consider yourself engaged in a career. Myself, i could go for training, i hope the IBEW calls me on monday and says its on but what i really want is to say is "i bought this truck with this electrical job and well see where it goes from there. This is the sentiment i approach this with. I genuinely think the use and flow of electricity is cool.
Part-II
Had to cut it off, so let me finish. I knew as early as age 15 what I wanted to do and it included training as an apprentice. The work was for Overhead Line Distribution work a.k.a. Power company lineman. At one point every Electric Utility/Co-op from Missouri, Illinois, Kansas, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska had an application on file from me. This was back in the 1980's, 1990's with out the Internet. All I had was telephone, post office, library, electric typewriter, Industrial publications and 2 used cars(If one didn't start or was broke down, got in the other, never late or miss). I even took a job with the largest CATV company in the country to learn how to climb poles just to help and worked for an employer to get my CDL. Zip/nada/nothing, including ibew local-1 and 2 here in St. Louis. As far as "Henry's Boy" is concerned, yea he can wash dogs and cats at his Aunt's pet store in south St. Louis cit-ay. He can also pick up/drop off the animals when his driver's license isn't suspended or revoked Today it is hilarious to me when a hiring hall or company can't get enough guys in. Both did it to themselves years ago and it's to late in the game for me to climb again. I liked doing line work, but CATV pay was so low I left for Trade School, which got me where I'm at to day. Nowadays there are climbing/distribution schools all over the place. Some are good and will get you the job, others are not. Plus, some of the companies are so short handed, they've actual gone back to hiring off the street and training you. All you need is a CDL, even then some will do that for you as well. Can't get a CDL using a car.
To wrap it up, you chances of getting in are quite good. Ibew lost 500,000 members between 2002-2015 in part due to the arrogance of members like southeast power. I myself stop paying dues back in 2001, for several reasons including 2nd class citizenship with no chance of earning 1st class citizenship. On the plus side for them, ibew has regained over 200,000 members between 2015-2018. Your experience with them should be completely opposite of what we outlanders faced years ago. They are very eager to get some fresh blood or new meat on the roster and that would be YOU!
Hope it works out for ya
Chris Hanson
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Old 07-06-2019, 10:31 PM   #27
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Where is here? Southeast Florida?
Not very accurate when it comes to facts and details.
At best your second sentence is childish.
I can see you came up the easy way, did someone pave the path for you?
Every local is different. For better or worse I came in as a CE. Got my journeyman license and turned in my hours every month and was turned out as a JIW 2 years later. Having my state license I negotiated with my employer to JIW wages for those 2 years, but without the good benefits.

Kept at it and became a foreman 2 years after that. Didn't know anybody, and probably pissed off some of the guys at the hall along the way.

The hall never did anything to hold me back but they sure didn't do much to help me either. There's a lot that could change for the better but more dedicated men have tried and failed to steer this institution. I don't believe it a good life long career, but the alternative usually isn't better.

I try to be as "brotherly" as I can, and try to be fair to my crew. I took the steward training so I try to manage in a fashion that hopefully would be considered fair in the eyes of a steward or the hall. I'm mindful of their rights and privileges even if they are not and educate them about it when I can even in the midst of disciplinary action.

I've been hung out to dry by the hall when I needed them, but I don't hold that against my fellow worker, my union ideals do not live and die with the IBEW.

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Old 07-06-2019, 11:21 PM   #28
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Every local is different. For better or worse I came in as a CE. Got my journeyman license and turned in my hours every month and was turned out as a JIW 2 years later. Having my state license I negotiated with my employer to JIW wages for those 2 years, but without the good benefits.

Kept at it and became a foreman 2 years after that. Didn't know anybody, and probably pissed off some of the guys at the hall along the way.

The hall never did anything to hold me back but they sure didn't do much to help me either. There's a lot that could change for the better but more dedicated men have tried and failed to steer this institution. I don't believe it a good life long career, but the alternative usually isn't better.

I try to be as "brotherly" as I can, and try to be fair to my crew. I took the steward training so I try to manage in a fashion that hopefully would be considered fair in the eyes of a steward or the hall. I'm mindful of their rights and privileges even if they are not and educate them about it when I can even in the midst of disciplinary action.

I've been hung out to dry by the hall when I needed them, but I don't hold that against my fellow worker, my union ideals do not live and die with the IBEW.

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I disagree, every local is the same, the difference is in the degree of intensity.
I have found that not every ibew Journeyman is a Jackofk. But that should be expected, when dealing with large groups of people.
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:14 AM   #29
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No. Every local is different. And sometimes there are factions inside a local that can be as different as Democrats and Republicans. Each pulling the local in different directions. Not in terms of politics, but in terms of organizing and every other aspect of running a local.

I am very happy with the leadership our local has now. Our recently retired president I have the utmost respect for. It will be near impossible to fill his shoes. But the BM and his cronies should have been shown the door ten years ago. At the time I guess we didn’t have better options.
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:35 AM   #30
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not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.
I am a union contractor and I toured the local IEC facility as part of an OSHA 30 class I attended (independent from the IEC) and the facility was impressive, I have worked with a few guys that went through the IEC program and they seemed to be competent workers.

Unless you have direct evidence of something that points this orginization as providing POOR TRAINING, I would avoid making such statements.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:31 PM   #31
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I am a union contractor and I toured the local IEC facility as part of an OSHA 30 class I attended (independent from the IEC) and the facility was impressive, I have worked with a few guys that went through the IEC program and they seemed to be competent workers.

Unless you have direct evidence of something that points this orginization as providing POOR TRAINING, I would avoid making such statements.
I think the idea of a 100% online program which is what was offered to me did not sound right. No harm meant, I bet the instructors and facility are good. I will correct my original post as to not dissuade potential applicants and not seem derogatory in nature.

I was told the local around me meets again on the 18th to decide how many/when training will begin for the next class. I ran into a guy at a supply house and he said he had work for me as a helper so I guess I will be doing that until an apprentice opportunity that seems right presents itself.

Last edited by Alec thenice; 07-09-2019 at 05:01 PM. Reason: IEC clarification
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:57 PM   #32
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Every local is different. For better or worse I came in as a CE. Got my journeyman license and turned in my hours every month and was turned out as a JIW 2 years later. Having my state license I negotiated with my employer to JIW wages for those 2 years, but without the good benefits.

Kept at it and became a foreman 2 years after that. Didn't know anybody, and probably pissed off some of the guys at the hall along the way.

The hall never did anything to hold me back but they sure didn't do much to help me either. There's a lot that could change for the better but more dedicated men have tried and failed to steer this institution. I don't believe it a good life long career, but the alternative usually isn't better.

I try to be as "brotherly" as I can, and try to be fair to my crew. I took the steward training so I try to manage in a fashion that hopefully would be considered fair in the eyes of a steward or the hall. I'm mindful of their rights and privileges even if they are not and educate them about it when I can even in the midst of disciplinary action.

I've been hung out to dry by the hall when I needed them, but I don't hold that against my fellow worker, my union ideals do not live and die with the IBEW.

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I share a similar view on union ideals and access to higher education that you do. Well said. I don't think I will hear back from my local for a while since the comity won't meet to talk shop until the 18th. I met a guy at a supply house today that was with an electric company and said he would take me on as a helper after we talked for a while. He offered lower pay than I wanted but I figured what I needed was experience and work until I hear what my local union hall has in mind for its next class of apprentices.
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Old 07-09-2019, 05:08 PM   #33
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not in the least, they have an expensive program that looks like poor training. I would agree with your assessment.
I was offered a 100% online program at the same tuition rate as the in person apprenticeship program. I am not a course evaluator nor do I hold any industry relevant certification. If I lived in the DMV area I would peruse their in person apprenticeship.
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