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Old 03-22-2019, 10:26 PM   #41
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The Vietnam War is over...


...just a thought.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:50 PM   #42
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Quote:
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...but is that how you would run your business? Attaboys go a long way, JMHO.

As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.

Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.

You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give a arse chewing.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:59 PM   #43
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As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.

Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.

You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give a arse chewing.
Whats wrong with that? Take the good with the bad over nothing at all, right?
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpop View Post
As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.

Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.

You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give a arse chewing.
It doesnít take a lot to say good morning to an employee, itís common decency IMHO, regardless of rank.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:40 AM   #45
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Most people try to avoid the boss when he shows up. That's one of the nice things with construction, your boss is not breathing down your neck ebery day.

My boss probably wouldn't even know your name after two years let alone that you even work for him. We are lucky that our boss does not show up on a regular basis, he seems to trust the foreman and project managers running his jobs.
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:52 AM   #46
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The thing thats different in this situation is that we use to have weekly monday morning safety meetings at the shop and i always say good morning to him. so its not like I've said one word to him in the 2 years i worked here.
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:32 PM   #47
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He's avoiding you, afraid you'll ask for time off.
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:40 PM   #48
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He's avoiding you, afraid you'll ask for time off.
Yeah, or ask why you donít get vacation pay!
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:54 AM   #49
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It's a rare underling that solves problems. Usually all conversations with them turn into requests for increased pay, vacation time, -- and what a jerk Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z are.

Further, the best electricians -- as a rule -- are introverts. They'll chat up close buddies, but don't allow just anybody to be their buddy.

It's almost never the case that a conversation with a dude two-levels above you is going to be pleasant. Your immediate superior ( j-man// foreman, et. al ) was supposed to keep you on the rails -- and plainly you've screwed up. That's why your boss's boss wants to chat things up with you.

Obviously, a group pow-wow is a totally different situation. (Hectoring over unsafe working practices being the classic pow-wow.)

In sum: to be ignored is to be complimented.

The Big Man uses 'management by exception.' That translates into: he speaks up only when he sees a first class foul-up. Good work brings silence.

Drill instructors in the military work on the same principle.

See "Full Metal Jacket" for how much fun you can have by being the center of the DI's attention.
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:17 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 360max View Post
It doesnít take a lot to say good morning to an employee, itís common decency IMHO, regardless of rank.
Not saying that those that haven't , wouldn't or couldn't serve in their countries military is bad , I am saying that had you served in the military
you would get this method. (I don't think you do cause you just equated it
with rudeness or "decency").

I can spot " former military" a mile away and many who wind up in
private companies , in leadership positions , generally can't help
but incorporate what they learned in the military into their non
military lifestyles.
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:20 AM   #51
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It's a rare underling that solves problems. Usually all conversations with them turn into requests for increased pay, vacation time, -- and what a jerk Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z are.

Further, the best electricians -- as a rule -- are introverts. They'll chat up close buddies, but don't allow just anybody to be their buddy.

It's almost never the case that a conversation with a dude two-levels above you is going to be pleasant. Your immediate superior ( j-man// foreman, et. al ) was supposed to keep you on the rails -- and plainly you've screwed up. That's why your boss's boss wants to chat things up with you.

Obviously, a group pow-wow is a totally different situation. (Hectoring over unsafe working practices being the classic pow-wow.)

In sum: to be ignored is to be complimented.

The Big Man uses 'management by exception.' That translates into: he speaks up only when he sees a first class foul-up. Good work brings silence.

Drill instructors in the military work on the same principle.

See "Full Metal Jacket" for how much fun you can have by being the center of the DI's attention.

But even in these "pow-wows" , the new guys are frequently told to shut the eff up , particularly Union meetings /pow-wows.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:27 AM   #52
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But even in these "pow-wows" , the new guys are frequently told to shut the eff up , particularly Union meetings /pow-wows.

Too many cooks in the kitchen will spoil the stew...
Too many chiefs and not enough warriors...
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:38 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpop View Post
As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.

Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.

You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give a attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give a arse chewing.

And...
At a plant/facility/gov type job are also willing to skip over U as needed.
This includes promotions, overtime, training, etc...
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:10 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpop View Post
As a apprentice do you really want the company owner speaking to you.

Its going look like you are either arse kissing or throwing your journeyman under the bus.

You will find most bosses that are willing to skip the chain of command to give an attaboy are also the same ones who are willing to skip the chain to give an arse chewing.

It is my train, my coal, and my track, I am the engineer so you F'up royally and deserve a word or two I have no issue taking you aside and setting you straight.

I am not a yeller or screamer, but I have no issue correcting someone when they need it.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:27 PM   #55
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And...
At a plant/facility/gov type job are also willing to skip over U as needed.
This includes promotions, overtime, training, etc...

With all the 'don't talk to nobody' talk, I'm wondering how anybody gets promoted at all.

Seriously, how does anyone get promoted anyway? Murder my foreman for the spot to open up, or play hop scotch with electrical companies?

If my first line in the chain sees me as a threat because he thinks I'm trying to take his job, or he just doesn't like me (and I have heard this personally) then your damn right I wanna speak to the man in charge. A foreman who doesn't communicate other than spewing rudeness is allowed to by the super, who is encouraged by his PM...probably to keep cost down, right?

...I need to speak to HIS boss, and if he says F'k off then I have my answer. I'll be forced to leave, or I'd be a fool to stay. Who the hell wants to be where they can't spread their wings and grow? My bad, for not being your damn buddy from way back.

I'm going through a similar situation now, so I know the feeling. That frat boy, clique stuff it rampant, and there are good men and women who want no part of it. Somehow you should WANT to be a part of that nonsense to either be let down and make a fool out of yourself, or become the person you hate the most.

I know all electrical cant be like this. But when you encounter those characteristics and you live it long enough, it WILL warp you.
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:28 PM   #56
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What happens?

You get rotated out.

Done.

It may astonish you, but your own foreman is PEGGED.

You REALLY think that you're the newest kid on the block?

Get over yourself.

Management re-calibrates what ever your foreman says based upon his track record.

I once had a PM try to fire me. He was ejected in (much) less than 48 hours.

( I was so 'dangerous' that no other PM would touch me. Much later, his replacement was fired as well. Same problem: he couldn't find any errors by me. The boss of all of the PMs was a total flake, of course. )
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:35 PM   #57
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Some people become very anxious, or angry, or indignant, or otherwise worked-up over injustice. Or perceived injustice. Or not receiving what they are convinced is their due. (Itís funny to watch sometimes)

You canít expect people to play fair, or to be fair. You canít expect to receive what you think is your due. And you have to learn to get over it.

Yes, you may have to move on. Or push so much you get fired. But eventually you need to learn to get over it, and let these little injustices roll off your back. Because life is unjust.

Children are raised to share, and play fair, and do unto others. And they get this expectation that everybody else in going to do this too. But when they start growing up, they realize that in the real world people donít play fair. Companies exist to profit, and they are designed to profit at the expense of others. And this is okay. It is reality. Itís not nice, but it is reality.

And a man learns what level of injustice he can choose to be okay with. What level of injustice is worth the effort of pushing against, or fleeing from, and whatís not worth the fight. It will be different for everyone. But he must learn what that level is for him, what amount of unfairness he is strong enough or mature enough to rise above and choose not to be shaken or roused by.

Otherwise he will be tossed around and controlled by it forever. Always at its mercy. Thatís no way to live.

And Iím not talking about being a door mat either. Thatís a whole different thing.

You watch. Youíll see grown men who are completely controlled by their sense of perceived injustice, and theyíre miserable. ďA licensed journeyman shouldnít have to do XYZ task - thatís for apprentices.Ē ďThis job is being run all wrong. Itís not how Iíd do it. Iím better than that.Ē Etc. Their whole day/week/job is spoiled by this petulance. Youíll see it over and over.

Okay, thatís enough of my whining. As you were.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:35 PM   #58
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Quote:
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It's a rare underling that solves problems. Usually all conversations with them turn into requests for increased pay, vacation time, -- and what a jerk Mr. X, Mr. Y and Mr. Z are.

Further, the best electricians -- as a rule -- are introverts. They'll chat up close buddies, but don't allow just anybody to be their buddy.

It's almost never the case that a conversation with a dude two-levels above you is going to be pleasant. Your immediate superior ( j-man// foreman, et. al ) was supposed to keep you on the rails -- and plainly you've screwed up. That's why your boss's boss wants to chat things up with you.

Obviously, a group pow-wow is a totally different situation. (Hectoring over unsafe working practices being the classic pow-wow.)

In sum: to be ignored is to be complimented.

The Big Man uses 'management by exception.' That translates into: he speaks up only when he sees a first class foul-up. Good work brings silence.

Drill instructors in the military work on the same principle.

See "Full Metal Jacket" for how much fun you can have by being the center of the DI's attention.
haha interesting. I must have the genes to be a top shelf electrician cuz I'm definitely an introvert and i don't chat up just anybody lol. very reserved.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:55 AM   #59
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With all the 'don't talk to nobody' talk, I'm wondering how anybody gets promoted at all.
The honest way to get promoted is to just do your job the best you can and hope someone who has the power to promote you sees how good you are.

There are dishonest and immoral ways to get promoted which I personally never used but have seen used. Perhaps that is why I was never a foreman.

However, you have probably been told before that "we make our own conditions". Therefore, if you really want to be in charge and also avoid all the political BS, your best course of action is to open your own shop. That's the best promotion you can get. You select the jobs, you make all the money, you never get laid off. That's what I did and I have never regretted it.
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:16 PM   #60
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The thing thats different in this situation is that we use to have weekly monday morning safety meetings at the shop and i always say good morning to him. so its not like I've said one word to him in the 2 years i worked here.

Do you shower regularly?
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