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Old 03-26-2019, 06:58 PM   #61
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:53 PM   #62
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With all the 'don't talk to nobody' talk, I'm wondering how anybody gets promoted at all.

Seriously, how does anyone get promoted anyway? Murder my foreman for the spot to open up, or play hop scotch with electrical companies?

If my first line in the chain sees me as a threat because he thinks I'm trying to take his job, or he just doesn't like me (and I have heard this personally) then your damn right I wanna speak to the man in charge. A foreman who doesn't communicate other than spewing rudeness is allowed to by the super, who is encouraged by his PM...probably to keep cost down, right?

...I need to speak to HIS boss, and if he says F'k off then I have my answer. I'll be forced to leave, or I'd be a fool to stay. Who the hell wants to be where they can't spread their wings and grow? My bad, for not being your damn buddy from way back.

I'm going through a similar situation now, so I know the feeling. That frat boy, clique stuff it rampant, and there are good men and women who want no part of it. Somehow you should WANT to be a part of that nonsense to either be let down and make a fool out of yourself, or become the person you hate the most.

I know all electrical cant be like this. But when you encounter those characteristics and you live it long enough, it WILL warp you.

You've listed multiple scenarios here, so I will break them down based on my experience.
1. Not everyone gets promoted, because there are fewer openings the higher up the food chain you go. If promotion is necessary for U, learn to play golf or find out where the "in" group meets and start sucking up. The other option, which is what I'm doing is continue to do good work, keep my hands to myself and noise out of other peoples business. Promotion for me is not that important, so when I get passed over by suckuulants, I don't get bent out of shape over it. Currently enjoying as Supervisor #5 gets hauled upstairs and grilled almost every week. Mind you here, the Airport staff is currently battling Downtown, the "parent" owner of the Airport. That's why my supervisor hasn't been fired...yet, among other problems.
2. Been there and experience that. Follow company procedure and be sure to dot all the I's and cross all the T's and save all paper work. Other option is to leave and go somewhere else. This is one of those situations where you have to look the other way...too a point or be prepared for the worst. Supervisor #3 back in the day was deliberately wrecking the shop. The reason? To contract out more of the work and reduce overtime/staff. The pay-off? One provable item that can't be ignored is he got his son in Local-1 apprenticeship three different times. And, his son washed out all three times because he's a POS just like his father. Upper management was fine with it at the time. Today, all those POS are gone and I'm still here. I can leave anytime I want to as well.
3. For more modern times I've been challenged with two Millennials who are 35-37 years old, but act like 5 years old. One of these idiots tried taking the truck keys away from another co-worker to drive the truck back to the shop and leave him out in the "Movement area" of an Airport, once the 6th busiest in the nation. Tried blaming me as a Lead, stated that I wasn't following the Foreman's work order and also pulled the race card on the Foreman who drove out there and brought his worthless asx back to the shop. In the past, this idiot has gone over my head without bring up issue with me first. One example is him complaining that another co-worker wasn't doing his share of work and I was "covering" for the co-worker. Didn't bother to complain to me first, just went right up and ran his mouth. Today, he is on a watch list, can't be assigned to work with just anybody, anywhere and steers clear of me.
4. I've been thru quite a bit and I haven't allowed it to "warp" me. I always tell the youngsters to always do good work. Quality should never suffer, but at the same time the best way to fuxk a bad boss is to do exactly what the boss said, don't forget CYA when doing so
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:13 PM   #63
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The honest way to get promoted is to just do your job the best you can and hope someone who has the power to promote you sees how good you are.

There are dishonest and immoral ways to get promoted which I personally never used but have seen used. Perhaps that is why I was never a foreman.

However, you have probably been told before that "we make our own conditions". Therefore, if you really want to be in charge and also avoid all the political BS, your best course of action is to open your own shop. That's the best promotion you can get. You select the jobs, you make all the money, you never get laid off. That's what I did and I have never regretted it.
I would know what those dishonest ways are. I want to know if they where ever done to me.

I'm already making plans to get my Masters. Studying a bit every morning, watching videos and listening to you guys. It would be asinine for me to make my employer money (and he HAS to be making a lot of money) and not make any for myself.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:25 PM   #64
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When your boss, owner etc, is successful then he/she deserves to get more for taking all the risks of running the business. Furthermore, while I'm all for fair compensation, a lot of people don't realize how much it costs to run things. I am still learning, sometimes painfully.
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:57 PM   #65
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I would know what those dishonest ways are. I want to know if they where ever done to me.
If you and a coworker are both in line for a promotion, your coworker could whisper bad things about you to the supervisor or could sabotage your work.

Instead you could target the supervisor. There are many ways to get favorable treatment (including promotion) from a supervisor that will cause you to jump ahead of a similarly skilled person who is being honest. The more dishonest and immoral you are willing to be, the bigger the skill gap you can jump. Here are a few examples. This is for intellectual discussion only. I’m not suggesting you attempt any of them.

*Stroke their ego.
*Become friends.
*Become drinking buddies.
*Offer them drugs.
*Use drugs together.
*Become their drug dealer.
*Flirt with them (if they are into you).
*Offer sex (if they are into you).
*Threaten to reveal a secret you found out about which would embarrass them or cause them to be in trouble with a spouse, supervisor, or the law. (blackmail)
*Entice them into a compromising position then blackmail them.
*Threaten them with physical harm.
*Hold their loved one for ransom.
*Kill them so there is an opening for a new person.
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:09 PM   #66
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I would know what those dishonest ways are. I want to know if they where ever done to me.

I'm already making plans to get my Masters. Studying a bit every morning, watching videos and listening to you guys. It would be asinine for me to make my employer money (and he HAS to be making a lot of money) and not make any for myself.
You are mistaken, here.

There is simply NO END of ways for a fouled up manager to fritter away what seems to be a ton of money -- because he runs his shop the same way that he runs his crews -- poorly.

What would you think of a savvy PM who smoked a $80,000 custom component in seconds? What happened to all of the Big Profits on that job?

Up the line the boners become EPIC.

Hit main optical fibre link from San Francisco to Nevada... back-charged $1,000,000 per hour. It was a good thing he was insured. Heh.

Lost his insurance coverage -- from everybody, anybody.

You can't fix stupid.

The PM goof went on to cost his next foolish employer to lose a couple of hundred-grand before someone got wise -- and really checked out his track record. He's no longer in our trade.
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Old 03-29-2019, 05:26 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
If you and a coworker are both in line for a promotion, your coworker could whisper bad things about you to the supervisor or could sabotage your work.

Instead you could target the supervisor. There are many ways to get favorable treatment (including promotion) from a supervisor that will cause you to jump ahead of a similarly skilled person who is being honest. The more dishonest and immoral you are willing to be, the bigger the skill gap you can jump. Here are a few examples. This is for intellectual discussion only. I’m not suggesting you attempt any of them.

*Stroke their ego.
*Become friends.
*Become drinking buddies.
*Offer them drugs.
*Use drugs together.
*Become their drug dealer.
*Flirt with them (if they are into you).
*Offer sex (if they are into you).
*Threaten to reveal a secret you found out about which would embarrass them or cause them to be in trouble with a spouse, supervisor, or the law. (blackmail)
*Entice them into a compromising position then blackmail them.
*Threaten them with physical harm.
*Hold their loved one for ransom.
*Kill them so there is an opening for a new person.
I fail to find the humor in this if this was your intent. I know of at least the Blackmail for sure, drugs I know of for sure including the drinking.
I have had a personal experience with a supervisor fighting employees under him in broad daylight so physical harm for sure.

Call me naive, but isn't it more stressful to behave like this living a lie for a few extra dollars? I don't get it! I feel sick honestly because I know this stuff happens.
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:31 AM   #68
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I fail to find the humor in this if this was your intent.
I was not attempting to be humorous at all. I was giving you an honest assessment. I was answering the question more broadly than a journeyman attempting to move up to foreman. Some promotions in the business world are worth a lot more money or status. But even at low level jobs, jealousy can cause people to do horrible things. Children have killed their parents to take over their businesses.
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:48 AM   #69
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Call me naive, but isn't it more stressful to behave like this living a lie for a few extra dollars? I don't get it! I feel sick honestly because I know this stuff happens.
The good news is, you're not a sociopath. Congratulations!

The bad news is, as mentioned life is not fair, and you are not suited to a lot of the usual ways to get ahead. You're going to have to do what you can with hard work, dedication, expertise, productivity, knowledge, integrity, etc. Oof. Well, maybe it will work out for you.

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Old 03-30-2019, 08:22 AM   #70
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Call me naive, but isn't it more stressful to behave like this living a lie for a few extra dollars? I don't get it! I feel sick honestly because I know this stuff happens.
Not sure how old you are but if you did not realize or have experienced what was explained above you either lead a sheltered life or indeed naive.

This is more the way of the world than the exception.
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:29 AM   #71
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Not sure how old you are but if you did not realize or have experienced what was explained above you either lead a sheltered life or indeed naive.

This is more the way of the world than the exception.
I killed a man for a 50 cent raise. I'd do it again for a quarter.
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:22 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Coppersmith View Post
I was not attempting to be humorous at all. I was giving you an honest assessment. I was answering the question more broadly than a journeyman attempting to move up to foreman. Some promotions in the business world are worth a lot more money or status. But even at low level jobs, jealousy can cause people to do horrible things. Children have killed their parents to take over their businesses.
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Not sure how old you are but if you did not realize or have experienced what was explained above you either lead a sheltered life or indeed naive.

This is more the way of the world than the exception.

Just recently a guy in NJ killed his brother, sister in law, as well as his niece and nephew for ominous reasons over the business he had with his brother.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...family-n975771
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:25 AM   #73
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Just recently a guy in NJ killed his brother, sister in law, as well as his niece and nephew for ominous reasons over the business he had with his brother.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...family-n975771
In California, this is known as a "Menendez Takeover"

In New Jersey, this is known as "Tuesday."
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:33 AM   #74
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In California, this is known as a "Menendez Takeover"

In New Jersey, this is known as "Tuesday."

Well, had he not killed the kids I'd agree!

That was just in real poor taste on his part.
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Old 03-30-2019, 01:12 PM   #75
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Just recently a guy in NJ killed his brother, sister in law, as well as his niece and nephew for ominous reasons over the business he had with his brother.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...family-n975771
The business at issue was Square One -- the digital firm that handles credit cards.

Some here may know of it.

The murderer was on disability! The money pouring in was huge.

Without a doubt Paul has the Dark Triad of personality traits.
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:13 PM   #76
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This turned into a pretty dumb thread.
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:26 PM   #77
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The business at issue was Square One -- the digital firm that handles credit cards.

Some here may know of it.

...
Different company. The cc processing company is Square, Inc aka Square Up.

Those guys in NJ/NY had some network/ database management company.
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:47 PM   #78
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This turned into a pretty dumb thread.
To be fair, it started out pretty dumb.
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:06 PM   #79
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The thread didn’t really start out as five stars. I guess I have always been the guy to just do his job and not worry about striking up a conversation with the boss when/if he walks the job. I think he respects that.

I remember seeing the house on fire on the front page and the story being big news when it happened. I haven’t heard much about it lately. I’m two towns away. For some reason I want to say that town has had other case of partnerships going bad and making the paper. That MAGA guy has a golf course there. Another golf course there was wired for surveillance by the FBI. They got the guy that owned it for some Wall Street fraud. He’s still in prison.
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:33 PM   #80
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To be fair, it started out pretty dumb.
Well, the OP got a badly needed reality check. Did anyone tell him to pucker up buttercup?
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