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Old 09-14-2017, 11:08 PM   #41
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:58 AM   #42
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One can view the NEC (or the entire NFPA library ) as legalese

Or.....

One can view it from purely a business standpoint.

As in , the NEC is a benchmark standard that we're all bidding, estimating etc against

W/o said benchmark , we (how many years did you school?) would be competing against trunk slammer DIY'ers

For any biz to survive, a level playing field must exist

agreed?

~CS~
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:10 AM   #43
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Case in point, many states have zero single family enforcement , as well as zero requirements for an HI

Doesn't always work out.....~CS~
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:26 AM   #44
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Case in point, many states have zero single family enforcement , as well as zero requirements for an HI

Doesn't always work out.....~CS~
Why would a HI need to have any requirements. They do no installations just recommendations.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:27 AM   #45
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I have no issues whatsoever with GFCI's or grounding.
I know, I don't either

But I did have issues with new GFCI requirements as recently as 25 years ago

And knew many electricians that had issues with new grounding requirements 50 years ago

So maybe 25 years from now we'll be comfortable with present code
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:40 AM   #46
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Why would a HI need to have any requirements. They do no installations just recommendations.
I look at it that they are selling a service, similar to an attorney or an accountant, to a home buyer. I think it is good if a HI has to meet certain knowledge requirements.
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:42 AM   #47
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Why would a HI need to have any requirements. They do no installations just recommendations.
You're right. And the same goes for municipal electrical, plumbing, and building inspectors. They don't do installations so they shouldn't have any requirements.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:41 PM   #48
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I'm fully aware of the HISTORY of NFPA 70. I simply asked to see the data that supports your assertion that it's a "front for the insurance industry and corrution of the NEC by way of NEMA players".



Just because "the NEC (NFPA) was ESTABLISHED by the Fire Insurance Industry" does not necessarily make it a "front" for them nor does it support your alleged "corruption" claim of the NEC". I asked if you had any other data to support the claim. If you don't, no big deal. Its simply a conspiracy theory.
Yeah I've noticed those are going around on this forum quite a bit
by The High Grand Pooh-Bahh of Up Butt Crack..
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:10 PM   #49
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I look at it that they are selling a service, similar to an attorney or an accountant, to a home buyer. I think it is good if a HI has to meet certain knowledge requirements.
The main issue with HI's is they are not unbiased inspections , but
rather are pro - whoever is paying for their service.

In many cases , the gigs they put on their reports can have such
a negative impact on the seller (without actually sighting real genuine
code references) that they ruin the potential sale for the seller and
more often than they're not even right.

Recent call from seller wanting me to come and "fix" the "code violations"
from the buyers "Home Inspection Report"....

(1) MUSThave all smoke detectors hardwired and interconnected
throughout each floor and the basement...wrong-house was built
in the 1950's with no modifications-it is grandfathered
Ohio Residential Code has this in place for new builds or remodels.

(2) Switches and outlet receptacles ungrounded...wrong-it's knob & tube
and still had 2 prong outlets - grandfathered

(3) No gfci receptacles on kitchen counter - original install is still there
grandfathered

(4) No outdoor weatherproof receptacles wrong - grandfathered

Now here is what the report did not have and should have had

A new panel and new meter socket enclosure has been installed
recently and there were no ground rods and an undersized GEC
went to the water line.
Unstrapped (insufficiently strapped) MC cable in the garage was
hanging down and off the wall
Overhead service conductors landed directly on what appeared
from my vantage point , to be a hook lag screw which was screwed
into the shingles about 6' up from the eave. The service conductors
then laid flat on the roof until they went over another eave edge
directly into a sideways mounted pvc weatherhead facing upward
toward the sky and then 90 down to the top of the meter socket
enclosure.
HO began to argue my points & I walked away at a very brisk pace.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:42 PM   #50
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Eggzactly Lighter

Being directed by nothing more than a semi retired and/or ex-GC w/o much for credentials is a recipe for litigation

~CS~
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Old 09-16-2017, 01:28 PM   #51
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One can view the NEC (or the entire NFPA library ) as legalese

Or.....

One can view it from purely a business standpoint.

As in , the NEC is a benchmark standard that we're all bidding, estimating etc against

W/o said benchmark , we (how many years did you school?) would be competing against trunk slammer DIY'ers

For any biz to survive, a level playing field must exist

agreed?

~CS~
so do you think having the installations required to be installed per code by the state in writing and no/minimal enforcement is a level playing field? in my experience with inspections they treat everyone equally. i think it might give contractors that follow the code the least a big advantage over ones that follow the code strictly whether they believe the code is right or not but because it is law/required by the government. i'm not sure though.
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:44 PM   #52
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I actually despise the NEC now that is a corrupt document to help manufacturers sell products. I only comply when inspections are happening.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:41 AM   #53
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The fact that he mentioned it has outdated wiring methods, knob and tube, might cause problems with lenders anyway, so it's not such a bad thing to mention during the inspection. The ungrounded receptacles are better than the grounded ones in that, it would seem, no one has messed with it. I know they pick up the usual things and walk right by things that are truly hazardous. My sisters place had a subpanel in the garage fed by a 60 amp breaker in the basement. The subpanel had a 100 amp main, can't have that...
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:46 AM   #54
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The fact that he mentioned it has outdated wiring methods, knob and tube, might cause problems with lenders anyway, so it's not such a bad thing to mention during the inspection. The ungrounded receptacles are better than the grounded ones in that, it would seem, no one has messed with it. I know they pick up the usual things and walk right by things that are truly hazardous. My sisters place had a subpanel in the garage fed by a 60 amp breaker in the basement. The subpanel had a 100 amp main, can't have that...
Why can't you have a 60 amp breaker feeding a 100 amp breaker? You do realize that as long as the feeder from that 60 is rated for 60 amps and the calculated load of the panel is less than 60 amps it is 100% fine right?
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:53 AM   #55
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Bowled a 675 the other night. When you want lessons come on down.
Woouldn't that be up and over?
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:54 AM   #56
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I was being sarcastic
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Old 09-17-2017, 10:04 AM   #57
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I was being sarcastic
This is not the place for sarcasm. This is a place where intelligent, well balanced and considerate electricians come to discuss the nuances of the electrical industry.
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Old 09-17-2017, 10:05 AM   #58
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Yeah.
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:45 PM   #59
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I was being sarcastic
Sorry my sarcasm detector can't interpret type, use emojiis next time!

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This is not the place for sarcasm. This is a place where intelligent, well balanced and considerate electricians come to discuss the nuances of the electrical industry.
you sure about that
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:05 AM   #60
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so do you think having the installations required to be installed per code by the state in writing and no/minimal enforcement is a level playing field? in my experience with inspections they treat everyone equally. i think it might give contractors that follow the code the least a big advantage over ones that follow the code strictly whether they believe the code is right or not but because it is law/required by the government. i'm not sure though.
Methinks we've all seen laws (or code for that matter) slip through the holes of weak enforcement , to where probably every tenured spark here has a story of being 'beaten out' Hd.

The fact is, most bona fide EC's will view any lesser install as a liability to their own existence regardless of any authorities presence.

The price of being bona fide is subscribing to a standard , if the powers that be fail to have our backs, we all fall down a notch as tradesmen

~CS~
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