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Old 07-22-2009, 11:29 PM   #1
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Default Any thoughts on the theory behind these

Ideal just put these out a few weeks back. Until today I did not get a chance to add them to the site, and wanted to get some feed back before listing them on there for sale.

If they perform well what would be the negatives vs a punch or a conventional holesaw? Most of the positives are listed in the PDF, unless you can think of any others

Ideal 36-314

JJ
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:49 PM   #2
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I haven't used those particular ones. But I've used several styles (Lennox, Greenlee and a few others I'd never seen before or since) of carbide tipped hole saws over the years and they are easily superior to regular hole saws.

When I find myself having to drill because I can't use a punch, carbide hole saws with the flange are the best way to go in my experience.

EDIT:

The big draw back with those vs. KO punches is that its a lot easier for someone to screw them up by abusing them.

Last edited by Mike_586; 07-22-2009 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:50 PM   #3
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They worked well for me over the years.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_586 View Post
I haven't used those particular ones. But I've used several styles (Lennox, Greenlee and a few others I'd never seen before or since) of carbide tipped hole saws over the years and they are easily superior to regular hole saws.

When I find myself having to drill because I can't use a punch, carbide hole saws with the flange are the best way to go in my experience.
The only thing is, I am not sure if these are carbide tipped hole saws per say. Almost all manufactures that make hole saws also make a carbide tipped hole saw. They look pretty drastically different. Or were you referring to this style exactly? That is what I am semi confused about here. Is Ideal just reinventing the wheel on carbide tipped hole saws or are these a big upgrade to carbide tipped hole saws and punches? Put it this way, list on these is $297 a set. I can buy a 13 pc hole saw kit from Morse that lists for about the same.

By the way, this name never gets thrown around, but if you guys are looking for really good hole saws (bi-metal, grit, carbide) check out Morse cutting tool out of Canton OH. I know from industry insiders that a handful of big brand name manufactures private label the Morse hole saws and SZ blades. Plus they truly are USA made, which is getting harder and harder to find these days.

JJ
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Last edited by Aiken Colon; 07-23-2009 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:49 AM   #5
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Looks inpressive. I am sure that the saws in that kit would be very good and it is easy to carry around in the protective case, got to be careful with those teeth. I carry a small set of knock-outs but I am sure the saws would be much faster. Is call for price about 300 bucks? Well you got to look at getting these, after all it says "Master Electricans Set".
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:53 AM   #6
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I don't normally drill stainless steel or sheet metal so they don't excite me. If I drill metal I use a unibit and KO punch.
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Old 07-23-2009, 05:17 PM   #7
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That looks like a good complete set for electrical work, but technically, those are Hole Cutters, not Hole Saws. They also look like a dead ringer for Hougan, which is what I’ve had for quite a few years now.
I find that the hole cutters work much better and faster with less run out than hole saws for cutting stainless sheet in places where you sometimes can’t use a punch, like under a sectionalized kitchen hood or a dish machine rack. They generally seem to work better for thin mild plate as well.
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Old 07-23-2009, 06:07 PM   #8
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I bought a set of these (1/2-3/4-1") about a month or so ago.

I really like the built-in spring that automatically ejects the slug after drilling out the hole. I also like the fact that you can make a hole in thicker material than the Greenlee Ultra cutters.

But I would like to see them available with a deeper body so it could cut a hole in even thicker material (like wood) on occasion. They are not very good when drilling in anything thick like that.

The other thing I would like to see is an extension rod suitable for use with these. Too often, I need to cut a hole in a spot where the drill won't fit, and a nice extension rod would really come in handy.

The problem with many drill extensions has been they depend on a single set screw to transmit the torque from the drill to the bit. The force of all that torque can cause the set screw to ring off, making the extension rod useless.

A good extension rod would utilize a hex socket to handle the torque, with a small spring-loaded quick-connect indentation to keep the bit from falling out. Setscrews are sooo 20th century. It's time to get in the 21st century!

You put a spring loaded mechanism on these bits. Why not on some decent extension rods???
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:18 PM   #9
 
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I use similar Greenlee Hole cutters all the time. They are great. I really like them and think they are a great product.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:16 PM   #10
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ive used the greenlee and lennox ones quite a bit. they defitately have thier place.
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Old 07-24-2009, 05:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiken Colon View Post
The only thing is, I am not sure if these are carbide tipped hole saws per say. Almost all manufactures that make hole saws also make a carbide tipped hole saw. They look pretty drastically different. Or were you referring to this style exactly? That is what I am semi confused about here. Is Ideal just reinventing the wheel on carbide tipped hole saws or are these a big upgrade to carbide tipped hole saws and punches?
JJ
The only thing I see on that Ideal hole saw that I hadn't seen before is the spring. I like the idea, but since I've never really had any issues getting slugs out of the hole saws I used, I don't think its worth the premium they put on the price tag.

As far as the bits looking radically different? There are other brands that have bits (minus the spring) that look extremely similar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
I bought a set of these (1/2-3/4-1") about a month or so ago.

....


But I would like to see them available with a deeper body so it could cut a hole in even thicker material (like wood) on occasion. They are not very good when drilling in anything thick like that.

The other thing I would like to see is an extension rod suitable for use with these. Too often, I need to cut a hole in a spot where the drill won't fit, and a nice extension rod would really come in handy.

There are other brands that make carbide bits (Bosch, Lennox, Milwaukee to name a few) and some make bits with the flange for shallow drilling through metal, while others have deep bits without the flange.

For extensions bits and hole saws/auger bits, I've always used the type of extension that has a hex shaped hole the same size as the shaft on the bits. The only purpose the set screws serve on those types are to keep the bit from falling out.
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_586 View Post
The only thing I see on that Ideal hole saw that I hadn't seen before is the spring. I like the idea, but since I've never really had any issues getting slugs out of the hole saws I used, I don't think its worth the premium they put on the price tag. ...
One thing I didn't mention is the pilot bit is actually 2 sizes -- a step bit if you will. It starts out with a smaller hole, then gets larger once you actually start cutting the hole. This varied bit makes the slug fall out -- with the assistance of the spring -- instead of getting stuck in the tool like the Greenlee does. This one feature (or 2 features if you will) saves a lot of time. I don't have to pry the slugs out at ALL!
Quote:
For extensions bits and hole saws/auger bits, I've always used the type of extension that has a hex shaped hole the same size as the shaft on the bits. The only purpose the set screws serve on those types are to keep the bit from falling out.
And I have no problem finding this on the larger bit extensions, such as the self-feeding bits and hole saws utilizing a 7/16 hex shaft. Its the smaller bits that usually depend solely on the set screw for both transmitting torque and retention of the bit in the extension that I have major problems with.
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
And I have no problem finding this on the larger bit extensions, such as the self-feeding bits and hole saws utilizing a 7/16 hex shaft. Its the smaller bits that usually depend solely on the set screw for both transmitting torque and retention of the bit in the extension that I have major problems with.
Yeah I know what you mean. I just use a locking 1/4" hex quick change extension bit and bought drill bits with a 1/4" hex shaft. The bits cost more, but the convenience and time saved are worth it for me.

EDIT: The other thing I've tried with limited success from parts I had lying around is a 3/8 chuck of an old drill that I've fitted onto the end of a piece of 3/8"-20 threaded rod and rod couplings from parts I had lying around.

Last edited by Mike_586; 07-25-2009 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:34 AM   #14
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I use the Lenox and it works real well. The spring in the center was a real good idea as well as the cutter not being so deep. I always get the slug stuck in the regular hole saw and it is a pain to try and remove it.
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Old 07-25-2009, 02:21 PM   #15
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Its not work it. I dont use those. Id rather use a cheap one. I use Mine Very Rarely. I Wouldent spend my money on that.
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