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Unread 08-06-2019, 11:39 AM   #1
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Default M12 Surge Hydraulic Impact Gun

Milwaukee has a new impact gun out:

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...rivers/2551-20

This is the newer type of hydraulic impact gun. People like them because they are quieter, but I don't care about that. One other selling point is "longer sustained torque", but I don't know what that means in real world usage.

My main concern is drilling. I use my M12 Fuel impact (the original Fuel model, now 2 generators old) to drill with Bosch Daredevil spade bits. Any impact will work to drive screws, but I want to make sure that it will work well while drilling.

So how will this newer hydraulic Surge impact work with drilling?
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Unread 08-06-2019, 12:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
Milwaukee has a new impact gun out:



https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Produc...rivers/2551-20



This is the newer type of hydraulic impact gun. People like them because they are quieter, but I don't care about that. One other selling point is "longer sustained torque", but I don't know what that means in real world usage.



My main concern is drilling. I use my M12 Fuel impact (the original Fuel model, now 2 generators old) to drill with Bosch Daredevil spade bits. Any impact will work to drive screws, but I want to make sure that it will work well while drilling.



So how will this newer hydraulic Surge impact work with drilling?
I would imagine it would work even better. I think the "sustained torque" thing means the torque curve is flatter at the top, so instead of a spike of torque it has kind of a plateau at the peak of its torque. Just a WAG.

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Unread 08-06-2019, 12:16 PM   #3
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You should buy it.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 01:22 PM   #4
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That drill is weak.
Milwaukee M12 FUEL Screwdriver Kit 2402 https://g.co/kgs/ZA1vef

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Unread 08-06-2019, 01:50 PM   #5
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I have 2 brushless drills now , they both are weak. Neither is a Milwaukee so this is probably not going to count in this thread but anyway......

They both drill fine till the slightest bit of real obstruction in the wood and then they stop dead. If you let go of the trigger they will start up again but stop shortly thereafter again, due to internal overheat protection. All this is fine and dandy except I wanted to drill me a hole, not protect the eff'n drill. The hole is what mattered most.

So it's back to the old style. I cannot wait till I won't be able to find the old style on sale anywhere now that they have "improved" all the drills by making them brushless.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 01:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zac View Post
That drill is weak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
I have 2 brushless drills now
Impact gun, not drill.

I am asking about a new technology in impact guns, and how it compares to the older impact guns, especially when it comes to drilling.
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Last edited by HackWork; 08-06-2019 at 02:05 PM.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 02:05 PM   #7
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Impact gun, not drill.
I know just giving you a hard time.

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Unread 08-06-2019, 02:19 PM   #8
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I would buy it, but I still have three M12 Fuels still going strong.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 02:30 PM   #9
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I would buy it, but I still have three M12 Fuels still going strong.
I saw some tests which put it very close to the second gen M12 Fuel impact, which has 100inlbs. more torque than my first gen and costs $40 less than the new Surge. But all of those tests have been with lag bolts, not drilling with spades.

I just don't want to buy the new Surge for more money and have it not work as well for drilling.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
I saw some tests which put it very close to the second gen M12 Fuel impact, which has 100inlbs. more torque than my first gen and costs $40 less than the new Surge. But all of those tests have been with lag bolts, not drilling with spades.

I just don't want to buy the new Surge for more money and have it not work as well for drilling.
I don't use mine for drilling, so that's why I'm content to keep them for now. If I do drill with an impact, I'll just break out the M18. I'm still "old fashioned" and use a regular M18 Fuel drill for holes, though I thrashed my knuckle really badly doing that so I use the Fuel Hole Hawg now.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 02:47 PM   #11
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The hydraulic / surge has lower peak torque but bigger average torque. This will mean faster drilling with fasteners as long as the lower peak torque is adequate to keep tthe screw turning.

When drving a spade bit again it should be faster as long as the lower peak torque keeps the bit turning. But when drooling is difficult the bit bobs down and won't budge and you have to reverse andhop again. With lower peak torque I think the bit will bog down more often where with a little more peak torque you could power through the tough spots.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 02:47 PM   #12
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I don't use mine for drilling, so that's why I'm content to keep them for now. If I do drill with an impact, I'll just break out the M18. I'm still "old fashioned" and use a regular M18 Fuel drill for holes, though I thrashed my knuckle really badly doing that so I use the Fuel Hole Hawg now.
If I am going to make a bunch of holes in lumber, such as roughing in a kitchen, I will bring in the M18 drill and an auger bit.

But for my typical service and installation type work, I only need to make a dozen or less holes so it is very convenient to just use the M12 impact that I always have with me. Bosch Daredevil bits work awesome because they have the pilot tip which pulls them thru the wood, but it requires a good amount of torque to do so.

If you hit something, such as a nail or hard spot/knot in the wood sometimes they will stop turning when using an impact gun. It will sort of flop around in the hole, turning forward about 1/32 of a turn, then back, then forward, then back. Instead of just smooth forward rotation it is kinda bouncing back and forth against the obstruction.

This is pretty easy to avoid from happening, but I wonder if this would happen worse with the "hydraulic surge" style impact guns.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 03:10 PM   #13
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Where is MAjewski when ya need him?

He bought on of those!!
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Unread 08-06-2019, 08:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
I have 2 brushless drills now , they both are weak. Neither is a Milwaukee so this is probably not going to count in this thread but anyway......

They both drill fine till the slightest bit of real obstruction in the wood and then they stop dead. If you let go of the trigger they will start up again but stop shortly thereafter again, due to internal overheat protection. All this is fine and dandy except I wanted to drill me a hole, not protect the eff'n drill. The hole is what mattered most.

So it's back to the old style. I cannot wait till I won't be able to find the old style on sale anywhere now that they have "improved" all the drills by making them brushless.
What brand are you using? Bosch has anti-kickback. If the bit catches, the drill stops so you don’t twist your arm off. That sounds like what you’re describing.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 08:26 PM   #15
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What brand are you using? Bosch has anti-kickback. If the bit catches, the drill stops so you don’t twist your arm off. That sounds like what you’re describing.
Oh those damned safety features...............
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Unread 08-06-2019, 08:31 PM   #16
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Where is MAjewski when ya need him?

He bought on of those!!

Could have just stopped there.
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Unread 08-06-2019, 09:02 PM   #17
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Could have just stopped there.

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Unread 08-06-2019, 11:08 PM   #18
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Just go "rent" one from orange and report back in a month in the thread titled:
M12 Surge Hydraulic Impact Gun part 2
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Unread 08-07-2019, 12:17 AM   #19
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In my experience, using an impact driver to drill holes is loud and slow. I always take in a driver and a drill, no big deal. Drill bits stay in the drill, driver bits stay in the driver. I find it’s easier to swap tools than bits.
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Unread 08-07-2019, 01:06 AM   #20
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Oh those damned safety features...............
I like it actually. Drill dies completely if it grabs. Pull the trigger and it starts again. Think of a holes saw in wood that suddenly grabs. It’s a wrist saver.
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