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Old 09-08-2009, 07:02 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadSplice View Post
How do you tighten lock nuts or remove knock-outs? Just curious.

How do you tighten locknuts with wiggy's? I've never seen that.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:11 PM   #62
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He uses this.
I've never seen that before, can I assume it is for lock nuts? Details please.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:17 PM   #63
 
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How do you tighten locknuts with wiggy's? I've never seen that.
Me neither. Why would he do that?
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:25 PM   #64
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Me neither. Why would he do that?
I don't know, you brought it up.

The discussion was about wiggy's, and Brian said:
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Originally Posted by brian john View Post
I want my solenoid tester to be a voltage tester ONLY, I do not want continuity on a voltage tester.
Then you asked:
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Originally Posted by BadSplice View Post
How do you tighten lock nuts or remove knock-outs? Just curious.
I just thought maybe you had a trick you were going to teach us, that's all.
















Really, I was just being a smart a$$. I guess you missed it.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:37 PM   #65
 
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Really, I was just being a smart a$$. I guess you missed it.
No, I noticed, I was just dragging it out.
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Old 09-08-2009, 08:44 PM   #66
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For standard troubleshooting I always use a wiggy.

It's faster/easier because I can feel the voltage instead of having to wait for the display and be in a position to read it. It will also test GFCI circuits.

If the situation calls for it, I use a meter.
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Old 09-08-2009, 09:15 PM   #67
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I've never seen that before, can I assume it is for lock nuts? Details please.
Here you go.
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(jsamhwbhqap55555xsjrt0yl)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=2130007482
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:55 PM   #68
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The manual states that the input impedance of a Ideal Vol Con is 1M.

The input impedance of the T+ and T+PRO is 20K at low voltages and goes up to about 240K when 600 volts is applied, so says Fluke.

Is that 1M for the Vol Con a bit too high or not to eliminate ghost voltages? Ideal's description is that it has a low impedance to eliminate ghost voltages. That's much lower that a typical DMM but I've never used one.
The Volt Con "ELITE" has a 1 Meg input impedance. That is a solid state tester, and not a solenoid type tester. Solenoid testers are generally around 10,000 ohms. I looked at the manual for the Volt Con, and it does not list the impedance. Anyway........I would not trust a unit with a 1 Meg input impedance to eliminate a ghost voltage. Yes 1 Meg is much lower than the 10 Meg of a typical DMM, but still high for ghost voltage.

I have never used a Elite, because (to me) it is way over priced. I would pick a Fluke T+ at $50 over a Ideal Elite at $70 anyday. Hell, I would pick a $50 Fluke over a $40 Ideal Elite. Fluke did it right with the T+. It is also solid state, and not a solenoid. But, it keeps a low input impedance close to the solenoid. Fluke knows what it is doing, Ideal is well.........not so Ideal.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:35 PM   #69
 
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So the Fluke 117 and the T+ are the only non-solenoid testers that will not be tricked by phantom voltages?
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:47 PM   #70
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So the Fluke 117 and the T+ are the only non-solenoid testers that will not be tricked by phantom voltages?
Didn't say that.

The Fluke 114, 116, 117 all have low impedance settings. I'm sure Fluke has a few others, but I don't work for Fluke, and know their entire line. Sperry also has a low impedance DMM. I don't know all DMM's with low impedance, but I'm sure there are more. For a non-solenoid voltage tester, the Fluke T+ has a low input impedance, and the Ideal does not. There are other solid state testers out there (I know sperry has one too), but I have not tried them. When you can get a T+ for under $50, why bother with other brands for higher, or around the same price?

Bottom line is you want something about 30,000 ohms, or lower to eliminate ghost voltages. The solenoids are around 10,000, the T+ is around 20,000, the Fluke DMM with Lo Z are only 3,000, and Fluke also sells a 3,000 ohm "ghost eliminator" that can be added in front of other DMM's to add low impedance to them.
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:54 PM   #71
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So the Fluke 117 and the T+ are the only non-solenoid testers that will not be tricked by phantom voltages?
Well, not really! Fluke's high end 289 has a LoZ feature also. One thing is that in the 289 manual it mentions that if the LoZ feature is used, the accuracy of "some" and I forget which features will decrease. You have to wait, I think ten minutes for cooling. Nothing is mentioned for the 117 manual about this issue.

Fluke also sells the SV225 stray voltage adapter that plug into any DMM that gives the LoZ feature.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:00 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Voltage Hazard View Post
The Volt Con "ELITE" has a 1 Meg input impedance. That is a solid state tester, and not a solenoid type tester. Solenoid testers are generally around 10,000 ohms. I looked at the manual for the Volt Con, and it does not list the impedance. Anyway........I would not trust a unit with a 1 Meg input impedance to eliminate a ghost voltage. Yes 1 Meg is much lower than the 10 Meg of a typical DMM, but still high for ghost voltage.

I have never used a Elite, because (to me) it is way over priced. I would pick a Fluke T+ at $50 over a Ideal Elite at $70 anyday. Hell, I would pick a $50 Fluke over a $40 Ideal Elite. Fluke did it right with the T+. It is also solid state, and not a solenoid. But, it keeps a low input impedance close to the solenoid. Fluke knows what it is doing, Ideal is well.........not so Ideal.
The T+ Pro has the GFCI test function too. The T+/T+ Pro won't trip a GFCI by itself. I have a T+ Pro. I like the fact that if no voltage is present, it switches to resistance automaticaly.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:15 AM   #73
 
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What benefit does the Fluke T+ have over Solenoid testers?

The T+ Pro has a digital readout so it's more like a DMM. But the T+ seems like an expensive alternative to a Solenoid tester.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:40 AM   #74
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What benefit does the Fluke T+ have over Solenoid testers?

The T+ Pro has a digital readout so it's more like a DMM. But the T+ seems like an expensive alternative to a Solenoid tester.
There are a bunch of things that a T+ gives you over a solenoid tester. The issue is whether or not any of these features are worth the price to you. If you just want a low impedance go/no-go tester for 120V, and nothing else, then go solenoid. But, here is why a T+ is worth the extra cash over a solenoid.

1. It is solid state, and much safer than solenoid. It has a CAT IV rating, and no solenoid tester on the market (even the knopp) can do that.
2. It has detailed voltage readings, down to 12V. No guessing if that plunger is at 240, or 277. The T+ will tell you. Not important if you are just doing go/no-go.
3. In addition to the detailed voltage lights, it gives vibration AND sound. Solenoid is vibration only, and not a heavy vibration.
4. The T+ provides a worklight
5. The T+ includes a GFCI test button. A solenoid will always trip a GFCI when measuring between hot and gnd. A T+ will trip that only when you want it to.
6. The T+ also does continuity.

These are a lot of things over a solenoid, but many of them require a battery. It comes down to what you want for your money.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:57 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by BadSplice View Post
What benefit does the Fluke T+ have over Solenoid testers?

The T+ Pro has a digital readout so it's more like a DMM. But the T+ seems like an expensive alternative to a Solenoid tester.

It reads much lower voltages than a solenoid tester and has a better ohms scale rather than just continuity. I think it's great as a troubleshooting meter for sticking in your back pocket.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:10 AM   #76
 
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Originally Posted by Voltage Hazard View Post
1. It is solid state, and much safer than solenoid. It has a CAT IV rating, and no solenoid tester on the market (even the knopp) can do that.
2. It has detailed voltage readings, down to 12V. No guessing if that plunger is at 240, or 277. The T+ will tell you. Not important if you are just doing go/no-go.
3. In addition to the detailed voltage lights, it gives vibration AND sound. Solenoid is vibration only, and not a heavy vibration.
4. The T+ provides a worklight
5. The T+ includes a GFCI test button. A solenoid will always trip a GFCI when measuring between hot and gnd. A T+ will trip that only when you want it to.
6. The T+ also does continuity.
1) Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the VolCon has a Cat III rating, I just checked and it is true.
2) No electrician should ever question the difference between 240V and 277V
3) The VolCon gives both vibration and sound too
4) That's one benefit of the T+ if you desire that feature
5) That's two benefits of the T+ if you desire that feature
6) The VolCon also does continuity

When I say "VolCon" I should be saying "Ideal Solenoid Voltage Tester". I thought the VolCon was the name of the entire line of testers, but it is not.

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has a better ohms scale rather than just continuity.
Isn't that the T+ Pro? The T+ Pro has many apparent benefits, being a full DMM and all. But the base model T+ seems lacking.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:52 PM   #77
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1) Isn't that the T+ Pro? The T+ Pro has many apparent benefits, being a full DMM and all. But the base model T+ seems lacking.
I wouldn't call the T+ Pro a "full DMM" just digital with more features than the T+ version. It is CAT IV rated instead of CAT III.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:57 PM   #78
 
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I wouldn't call the T+ Pro a "full DMM" just digital with more features than the T+ version. It is CAT IV rated instead of CAT III.
Yeah, I guess that's up for debate. I don't know how to exactly define a DMM, but the T+ Pro comes close.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:09 PM   #79
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1) Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the VolCon has a Cat III rating, I just checked and it is true.
2) No electrician should ever question the difference between 240V and 277V
3) The VolCon gives both vibration and sound too
4) That's one benefit of the T+ if you desire that feature
5) That's two benefits of the T+ if you desire that feature
6) The VolCon also does continuity

When I say "VolCon" I should be saying "Ideal Solenoid Voltage Tester". I thought the VolCon was the name of the entire line of testers, but it is not.

Isn't that the T+ Pro? The T+ Pro has many apparent benefits, being a full DMM and all. But the base model T+ seems lacking.
Dude,

Do you just like arguing, or what? You seem very capable of researching the differences, and appear to already know them, so why ask me the difference? I'm not trying to talk you into a T+. If you like the Volt Con, then more power to ya. You asked the difference between a solenoid tester, and a T+. I assumed you meant straight solenoid, and not a VoltCon, because you said the T+ was a expensive alternative. I would agree if you were comparing a $45 T+ with a $20 solenoid tester. But, a VoltCon sells for between $30 and $35, so it is not that much more "expensive". At any rate, let's go go back to the list.

1. I said the T+ is CAT IV, which is safer than the CAT III of the Ideal
2. My point was that it gives a easier to read level of voltage than a spring loaded bar on a scale. Plus, it is a LED light that can be seen in the dark, and is way easier to read than a solenoid tester or VoltCon
3. I did not know the VoltCon had sound on voltage measurement, but my list was comparing a staright solenoid tester, which is what I thought you asked about.
4. A benefit if worth the price
5. A benefit if worth the price
6. A VoltCon does do continuity. VoltCon means Voltage/Continuity.

So, over a VoltCon the T+ offers higher safey rating, easy to read lighted voltage display, worklight, ability to turn sound and vibration off (if desired), and GFCI test. If that's not worth $10 more, then stick with the VoltCon. I'm not trying to convert you. You asked what you got for the extra money, and that's the list.
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:11 PM   #80
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Yeah, I guess that's up for debate. I don't know how to exactly define a DMM, but the T+ Pro comes close.
It's listed under Electrical Testers at Fluke's site not under Digital Multi-Meters.
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