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Old 02-25-2019, 09:27 PM   #1
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Default 220/230v 1ø

Working on a project with machinery built for a 380v50hz grid., power supply is 480v60hz

All of the motors and control circuits have been adapted for the higher voltages and frequencies, the only problem I’ve encountered is equipment that calls for 230v line to neutral, the manufacturer has advised that because it has sophisticated electronics on board it should be powered by a line to neutral supply rather than 230v line to line.

Does this make any sense?

I had planned to put in a 480/240 transformer and use a set of taps for as close to 230v as I could get and then use 2 lines rather than line to neutral. This is how I’ve done control circuits before but this is a bit different.

I could run line to neutral and the use a buck boost transformer to get down to 230v, just trying to figure out the most correct approach.

Thanks!
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:26 PM   #2
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So, you're an electrical engineer.

Please fill out your profile.

BTW, you must be #10,456 on our list of EEs trying to modify gear between IEC and NEMA standards.

So, there are no end of back threads beating these issues to DEATH.
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:53 AM   #3
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Thank you for replying but I must say that your response was less than helpful.

No, I am not an electrical engineer. I am an electrician that has been tasked with making this system work, the rest of the project is not a problem but this is a bit over my head so I have reached out for advice.

Really what I am trying to understand is the difference between a machine seeing 230v line to neutral once per cycle or seeing 115v line to neutral twice per cycle. At least that is my understanding of the difference.

Are there any helpful answers out there?
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:00 AM   #4
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It is some really sensitive stuff it if really cares about 230V rather than 240V. The nominal 240V is seldom actually exactly 240V at the point of use. They usually call out 230V to anticipate some voltage drop but there's almost always an operating voltage range.

The only difference I could see between 230V line to line supply and 230V line to neutral supply is the line-to-ground voltage, if there is something referenced to ground in the electronics communcations (bonded shield or whatever) it could be trouble.
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:45 AM   #5
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If you could find a similar product for your voltage range ,,, I have an adjustable transformer that will take 240 volts down to zero by turning a dial at the top of it, that has a stencil ring with graduated marks for each volt. It sits around most of the time, but on rare occasions it gets a bit of use, mostly to test out accuracy of my meters. I forgot why I ever required it in the first place, but I (we) used to do lots of Camera's and Access Controls so probably for bench work for those days. The windings are all exposed, it's not something to just leave connected to power and lying around however.


Something like that in a higher volt range would maybe be your answer.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:58 AM   #6
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1) OP: you still haven't filled out your profile.

2) The back threads have addressed every aspect of your situation.

Many of the commenters in those threads are no longer posting. They've moved on.

These back threads are open to everyone.

A couple of clicks -- and you're off to the races.

BTW, there are a lot of considerations -- so don't expect a snappy response.

You haven't even (remotely) detailed enough to provide a basis for (correct) advice.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:00 PM   #7
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And, for your edification, you're performing the function of an Electrical Engineer// Design Engineer.

Ask for (a lot) more money.
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:42 PM   #8
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In my extensive experience having worked for two different German companies selling products in the US:

1) Nothing cares one iota whether the voltage is L-L or L-N. The reason they say that is because the entire concept is foreign to them (they think we are nuts) so they say it to CYA.

2) Europeans must deal with "harmonization" of various voltage levels throughout the EU and beyond. Some are 380/220V, some are 400/230V, some are 415/230V. So the "harmonized" level, meaning the compromise, is 400/230V, meaning 400V L-L, 230V L-N. But because they want their stuff to work in Great Britain and their offspring where they use 415/240V, they will design their equipment to handle that.

3) Decades ago coils wound for 50Hz may have given you problems with 60Hz, but now most mfrs have solved that issue and coils are all 50/60Hz rated. Anything electronic will likely have a Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS) of some sort and will not care about frequency, plus many of the never designs now accept really wide voltage inputs, as in 90-285VAC on the same device. Servos and VFDs are basically like SMPS power supplies and don't care about frequency, and although voltage MIGHT make a slight difference, it's usually not enough to sweat over.
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:46 PM   #9
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JRaef, thank you for a great explanation.

After consultation with the customer, manufacturer, and an electrical engineer we are installing a buck/boost transformer to create the required 230v supply within the cabinet. The manufacturer was a bit vague but indicated that line to line may cause shielding issues.
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Old 02-27-2019, 08:18 PM   #10
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How is a buck-boost going to get L-N voltage if there is no grounded conductor to begin with?



I doubt it really matters, but if I had to do this, I'd get a small 480-240 transformer and ground one leg for a "neutral".
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