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Old 06-18-2018, 10:00 AM   #41
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Do you guys not have to have a disconnect for every circuit at a remote structure?
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:28 AM   #42
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So you got that part done run whatever size conduit that is from that location then put a 100 amp panel in the garage and refeed the existing circuits.

For some reason I get the feel you just want to add an additional circuit for the charger. That is not doing the customer any favors in my opinion.
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The customer already mentioned they don't want a sub panel or any future expansion. They want the cheapest possible way to add an ev outlet to their garage to apply for government rebates. In the end it's not up to me or what I think they should have installed.

That existing LB in the pick is sleeving nmwu or what you guys call UF cable and if it was installed properly, it will be buried 24" minimum the entire length.
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Do you guys not have to have a disconnect for every circuit at a remote structure?

I'm with Sbrn33.


Down here in the states, their garage would get refed with a single feeder and a subpanel with any branch circuit being rerouted directly to that sub of course per the NEC. The fact they may not want a sub, would not be an option in our quote. They would be getting a sub quoted with the job done correctly, or they can find someone else.



In my mind, there is no sense cutting corners just to make a sale to an idiot customer, when there is more than enough work to be had elsewhere that can be done correctly for better customers.


Just my opinion.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:32 AM   #43
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I'm with Sbrn33.


Down here in the states, their garage would get refed with a single feeder and a subpanel with any branch circuit being rerouted directly to that sub of course per the NEC. The fact they may not want a sub, would not be an option in our quote. They would be getting a sub quoted with the job done correctly, or they can find someone else.



In my mind, there is no sense cutting corners just to make a sale to an idiot customer, when there is more than enough work to be had elsewhere that can be done correctly for better customers.


Just my opinion.
Plus a sub will be cheaper than another hole in that foundation and open up some circuits in the main house.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:33 AM   #44
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go tec...
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:36 AM   #45
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I still want to get $50 a foot to dig. I could have 4-4 inch conduits bored in for half that.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:06 PM   #46
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That was my other issue. Wouldnt I just apply for an EV Charger outlet and have the trench inspected during rough in?

The only option I see for trench inspections is for primary/secondary lines.

There supposed to be a separate inspection item for trench... but I agree that you can get it done at the same time. What I normally do is backfill a portion and leave sections open for inspection; you are only dealing with 15' so not sure how practical that is. If the kid does not dig the trench in time for your rough-in, you are going to lose both inspections and will need to re-schedule.


I would not worry about the "stone" either; like @99cents said, you can use a JB or just get some good quality non-shrinking grout and push through the sill plate area. I would be worried just going through the foundation with snow buildup, might end up being a leak issue in the future.


Cheers
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:14 PM   #47
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The garage is already fed with general use circuits for lighting and outlets but they used nmwu and sleeved it above ground. They went into the garage through the foundation but the foundation may have been poured around the conduit.

Despite what the client wants, I think this is a good opportunity to explain how doing something "cheap" has cost more in the end.


If you are going to dig the ground, I would make use of the wall penetration and conduit stub and re-pipe the entire thing. I think a sub-panel is the only way to go now seeing this.


Cost of permit is the same;
Cost of digging is the same;
Cost of material (teck90 vs PVC and TWH) is comparable;
Cost of labour to drill and rework new cable and use old / existing would be comparable; and
Cost of panel and breakers (match what is in the house) is minimal.


Cheers
John
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:22 PM   #48
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Despite what the client wants, I think this is a good opportunity to explain how doing something "cheap" has cost more in the end.


If you are going to dig the ground, I would make use of the wall penetration and conduit stub and re-pipe the entire thing. I think a sub-panel is the only way to go now seeing this.


Cost of permit is the same;
Cost of digging is the same;
Cost of material (teck90 vs PVC and TWH) is comparable;
Cost of labour to drill and rework new cable and use old / existing would be comparable; and
Cost of panel and breakers (match what is in the house) is minimal.


Cheers
John
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:35 PM   #49
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Do you guys not have to have a disconnect for every circuit at a remote structure?
AFAIK, we don't have that same code you guys do.

Having said that, why would anyone run multiple services to an outbuilding

Like @Navyguy said , run the new pipe and put in the panel. If the customer refuses, then he can get a trunkslammer to do it.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:46 PM   #50
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Digging isn't fun when you hit a buried piece of plywood.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:05 PM   #51
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Digging isn't fun when you hit a buried piece of plywood.
Worse when they don't bother putting him in the plywood box
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:09 PM   #52
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Thanks all for the helpful advice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyguy View Post

If you are going to dig the ground, I would make use of the wall penetration and conduit stub and re-pipe the entire thing. I think a sub-panel is the only way to go now seeing this.

Cost of permit is the same;
Cost of digging is the same;
Cost of material (teck90 vs PVC and TWH) is comparable;
Cost of labour to drill and rework new cable and use old / existing would be comparable; and
Cost of panel and breakers (match what is in the house) is minimal.

Cheers
John

Thanks for the advice John. I think reusing the existing penetrations is a good idea and I will likely price it that way. I am also going to push the sub panel regardless. Curious though why teck90 and not acwu90? Also what is TWH? I am used to uninstall rwu90 for underground conduit. I cant find TWH on the supplier website.


I have to recheck the LB's going into the buildings, I think they are 1-1/4" but they may be 1".
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:23 PM   #53
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Thanks all for the helpful advice!



Thanks for the advice John. I think reusing the existing penetrations is a good idea and I will likely price it that way. I am also going to push the sub panel regardless. Curious though why teck90 and not acwu90? Also what is TWH? I am used to uninstall rwu90 for underground conduit. I cant find TWH on the supplier website.


I have to recheck the LB's going into the buildings, I think they are 1-1/4" but they may be 1".
THWN
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:43 PM   #54
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Whether you go CU or AL is your call. Most cable / wire is multi-rated (T90 / THHN / THWN) so the truth is whatever you are putting underground that is stock is good. I do know that RWU is a fairly thick insulation and that is why most go with THWU / THWN or some other thermoplastic insulation vice the rubber.


Cheers
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:56 PM   #55
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Whether you go CU or AL is your call. Most cable / wire is multi-rated (T90 / THHN / THWN) so the truth is whatever you are putting underground that is stock is good. I do know that RWU is a fairly thick insulation and that is why most go with THWU / THWN or some other thermoplastic insulation vice the rubber.


Cheers
John

I had no clue about this. I always thought T90 could only be installed in dry locations. I have always installed RWU90 in underground conduit.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:20 PM   #56
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Well this sucks. I was planning to remove the existing LBs and run #3 teck all the way but then I realized that the existing conduit is carrying travelers from the house to the garage 3 way switch.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:46 PM   #57
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Well this sucks. I was planning to remove the existing LBs and run #3 teck all the way but then I realized that the existing conduit is carrying travelers from the house to the garage 3 way switch.
How about a wireless switch in the garage?
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Old 06-19-2018, 07:21 PM   #58
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How about a wireless switch in the garage?

Do you have anything you can recommend? All I can think of is casetta and I'm not sure if wireless switching is approved here to meet code.
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:37 AM   #59
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Dig it! $50/foot. That's good money, plus you save on gym expense
The last trench I looked at as mentioned in previous post
was 115'....I'd get over $5GR to dig that?

Nobody round here would pay that
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Old 06-20-2018, 02:48 AM   #60
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I'm with Sbrn33.


Down here in the states, their garage would get refed with a single feeder and a subpanel with any branch circuit being rerouted directly to that sub of course per the NEC. The fact they may not want a sub, would not be an option in our quote. They would be getting a sub quoted with the job done correctly, or they can find someone else.



In my mind, there is no sense cutting corners just to make a sale to an idiot customer, when there is more than enough work to be had elsewhere that can be done correctly for better customers.


Just my opinion.
I had a very similar thread about this and several guys here lit me up.
HO was attempting some B.S. about needing an electric charger for
the non existent electric car and was trying to dictate the where's
the how's and the what's and all while being very vague.

I have no problem walking away from these types of "customers".
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