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Old 02-23-2019, 02:05 PM   #81
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I doubt he is lying about his average ticket. He needs to calculate things differently though, as super high jobs that are out of the ordinary for his normal scope of business, will complicate his data.

Lets say this is a set of 10 jobs he is running:

Job #1 = $250.00
Job #2 = $300.00
Job #3 = $350.00
Job #4 = $400.00
Job #5 = $400.00
Job #6 = $485.00
Job #7 = $667.00
Job #8 = $844.00
Job #9 = $899.00
Job #10 = $25,000.00

His average job ticket is $2,959.50

Now when he crunching numbers for his business and he uses the average of $2,959.50 as his baseline, it will skew the data incorrectly. Unless he is consistently selling $25k jobs, he needs to consider the "median" cost of his jobs versus the average cost of his jobs.

His real average "Median" would be $442.50 per job.

No?
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Old 02-23-2019, 02:12 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Switched View Post
I doubt he is lying about his average ticket. He needs to calculate things differently though, as super high jobs that are out of the ordinary for his normal scope of business, will complicate his data.

Lets say this is a set of 10 jobs he is running:

Job #1 = $250.00
Job #2 = $300.00
Job #3 = $350.00
Job #4 = $400.00
Job #5 = $400.00
Job #6 = $485.00
Job #7 = $667.00
Job #8 = $844.00
Job #9 = $899.00
Job #10 = $25,000.00

His average job ticket is $2,959.50

Now when he crunching numbers for his business and he uses the average of $2,959.50 as his baseline, it will skew the data incorrectly. Unless he is consistently selling $25k jobs, he needs to consider the "median" cost of his jobs versus the average cost of his jobs.

His real average "Median" would be $442.50 per job.

No?
Heís not doing $25,000 jobs. I guarantee you if he had $20,000+ jobs he wouldíve brought them up in all the posts that he bragged about his numbers.

Donít forget that he had to go back a few months to talk about a $3700 job and then six months to talk about a $6500 job. Itís not like he was talking about doing those that month and every month.
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Old 02-23-2019, 02:57 PM   #83
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I spoke the truth DVR, but looking back now I can see how it would look like a fish story.
I'll be much more careful how I word things here in the future, I only joined a month or so ago and didn't expect such a tough crowd.
Not any different here than a large crew on a jobsite, if someone suspects something is off you will get called out on it.
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Old 02-23-2019, 03:57 PM   #84
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....You do not get to post that bullcrap here where someone might see it and get the wrong idea....
Whatever Hax, I've said all I can to end this stupid fight.
If you want to continue bullying me on this thread, then I can't do anything about that.
But I have got just as much a right to speak here as you do, if you want me off the thread then get one of the moderators involved.
They might not agree with me, but I'm not the one name calling, insulting, harassing, stalking and bullying anyone either.
I'm trying to put an END this dumb fight Hax, while you seem determined to keep it going.
I just want to talk about sales, but you keep attacking me no matter what I say, even after I've apologized TWICE now.
For the record, I've taken WAY more insults on this thread than anyone and have not had a single apology.
Never the less, I'm still here and I'm holding to my promise not to stoop to the level of name calling or insulting anyone.
Surely there is something you would rather be doing on a weekend than argue on the internet with a complete stranger isn't there Hax?!?
I'd like to think we're all adults here and that cooler heads will prevail.
Please take the higher ground on this one Hax and just let it go already.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:03 PM   #85
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Whatever Hax, I've said all I can to end this stupid fight.
No, you haven't.

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If you want to continue bullying me on this thread, then I can't do anything about that.
It's not bullying.

Bullying is when you pick on someone smaller and weaker. Right now I am going after the big tough guy, as you made yourself out to be.

Quote:
But I have got just as much a right to speak here as you do, if you want me off the thread then get one of the moderators involved.
You do have as much right to speak here as I do. No one said anything about getting moderators involved. You can continue to post all that you want, and I will be right here to expose you each and every time you do.

Quote:
They might not agree with me, but I'm not the one name calling, insulting, harassing, stalking and bullying anyone either.
Cry me a river, Nancy. You want it to end, you post the truth. I gave you that option. Until you do the right thing, all your suffering is on you.

Quote:
I'm trying to put an END this dumb fight Hax, while you seem determined to keep it going.
I just want to talk about sales, but you keep attacking me no matter what I say, even after I've apologized TWICE now.
For the record, I've taken WAY more insults on this thread than anyone and have not had a single apology.
Never the less, I'm still here and I'm holding to my promise not to stoop to the level of name calling or insulting anyone.
Surely there is something you would rather be doing on a weekend than argue on the internet with a complete stranger isn't there Hax?!?
I'd like to think we're all adults here and that cooler heads will prevail.
Please take the higher ground on this one Hax and just let it go already.
Blah blah blah blah blah.

We still don't see any numbers from you to support the lies you posted earlier. You are trying your hardest to back out unscathed, but I just won't let that happen.

I was extremely clear when I told you that I will be here every time you post.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:12 PM   #86
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Not any different here than a large crew on a jobsite, if someone suspects something is off you will get called out on it.
Fair enough, but does that mean I'm just supposed to tow the line on popular opinion and keep my mouth shut?
Isn't the whole purpose of this forum for discussion and learning?
I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, that's all part of a healthy debate, but I say one wrong thing here and I'm met with intolerance and hostility.
You've been here some time DVR, so level with me: is this truly an open forum or have I just walked into an old boys club?
Because if its the latter, then I've got better things to do than try and shake up the status quo here.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:20 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Rfreddy View Post
Fair enough, but does that mean I'm just supposed to tow the line on popular opinion and keep my mouth shut?
Isn't the whole purpose of this forum for discussion and learning?
I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, that's all part of a healthy debate, but I say one wrong thing here and I'm met with intolerance and hostility.
You've been here some time DVR, so level with me: is this truly an open forum or have I just walked into an old boys club?
Because if its the latter, then I've got better things to do than try and shake up the status quo here.
You're doing a lot of whining.

You came in here all high and mighty. We were all polite and courteous and gave you a chance to prove that you were the top dog that you made yourself out to be. You failed to do that.

Now it's on you to admit your bologna and move on, or keep it up and keep getting crap about it. Your choice, but stop whining already.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:30 PM   #88
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No, you haven't.

It's not bullying.

Bullying is when you pick on someone smaller and weaker. Right now I am going after the big tough guy, as you made yourself out to be.

You do have as much right to speak here as I do. No one said anything about getting moderators involved. You can continue to post all that you want, and I will be right here to expose you each and every time you do.

Cry me a river, Nancy. You want it to end, you post the truth. I gave you that option. Until you do the right thing, all your suffering is on you.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

We still don't see any numbers from you to support the lies you posted earlier. You are trying your hardest to back out unscathed, but I just won't let that happen.

I was extremely clear when I told you that I will be here every time you post.
OK Hax, you win.
You're 100% right and I'm a big, dumb, arrogant liar.
I made up all the numbers and stories on the thread, so there's just no possible way I can produce any numbers to prove them.
Everything I said was a complete lie.
I've never even sold so much as a box of girl scout cookies.
I don't know anything about anything and I'm not even an electrician.
I've never owned a business, or a home or had a family.
I'm just a homeless bum who enjoys trolling internet forums at the public library for fun.
Its a pathetic pass-time, I know, but what can I say....I just suck.
I will probably die a hopeless compulsive liar and no one will ever love me, not even my mother.
Oh, and I'm ugly, poorly endowed and I smell bad too.

There's my confession of guilt Hax.
You happy now?
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:34 PM   #89
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You happy now?
Nope, your childishness is just digging your hole deeper.

Notice how yet again you did not post any numbers? Convenient, huh?

Go back to the beginning of the thread where you had to go back a few months in time to a $3,700 job and 6 months to a $6,500 job. Now tell us how your invoices average $3,700 for a residential contractor who only does service work and is slow, and your largest jobs were small in comparison and were many months between.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:42 PM   #90
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Sorry everyone, but I think Hax and I have just turned this thread into an all out cage match.
Not likely to be any intelligent discussion from here on in.
Too bad, as I liked the original topic.
Sorry we had to ruin it for everyone else.

OK now Hax, when the bell goes you get over here and try and bite my ear off Mike Tyson style!!!
If anyone else is going to stick around for this we may as well give em a show right?

"Ding-Ding"
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:48 PM   #91
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Sorry everyone, but I think Hax and I have just turned this thread into an all out cage match.
Not likely to be any intelligent discussion from here on in.
This thread was old and finished before you bumped it to brag about yourself, then you left for a month. Now you revived it just to have your ass handed to you over and over.

The second you posted in this thread you completely ruined any chances of intelligent discussion.

BTW, you call me Hax a lot. Very few people do that. Mainly close friends from the past, which is making me think you are just a returning banned person who is trolling.

Quote:
Sorry I had to ruin it for everyone else.
I corrected that for you.

Quote:
OK now Hax, when the bell goes you get over here and try and bite my ear off Mike Tyson style!!!
If anyone else is going to stick around for this we may as well give em a show right?

"Ding-Ding"
What an idiot. In the time it took you to make this post, you could have either posted your numbers to justify your fantasy, or admitted you lied about them so we could move on.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:55 PM   #92
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come on Hax, how can I possibly win at this point?
There is nothing I could say or do that could 100% conclusively prove my numbers to you at this point.
Pretty much ANYTHING I post now you're going to tear apart.
Short of sending you my complete set of financials for last year, there's nothing I can do to convince you I'm not a liar.
And there's NO way ANYONE here would share there books with another member.
I can't 100% prove I'm telling the truth, ergo I am a liar.
You win Hax, isn't that what you wanted?

(BTW everyone, I've really got to go now and won't be back for 10 days. My GF is home in 20min and she's going to be choked when she finds I've been here BSing instead of packing for our Caribbean holiday tomorow! But don't worry, I'll be back!)
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:57 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Rfreddy View Post
Fair enough, but does that mean I'm just supposed to tow the line on popular opinion and keep my mouth shut?
Isn't the whole purpose of this forum for discussion and learning?
I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, that's all part of a healthy debate, but I say one wrong thing here and I'm met with intolerance and hostility.
You've been here some time DVR, so level with me: is this truly an open forum or have I just walked into an old boys club?
Because if its the latter, then I've got better things to do than try and shake up the status quo here.
A little bit of both bro!

There is a great deal of knowledge and experience here, more than any one person can stay current on so the diversity in both is the value of the site.

I'm not in the 'old boys club', many don't like my anti liberal/demonrat stance.

The only guy I'd argue with here I have blocked so I don't even see his foolishness.

I'm just a grumpy old bastard.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:58 PM   #94
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come on Hax, how can I possibly win at this point?
There is nothing I could say or do that could 100% conclusively prove my numbers to you at this point.
That is because you are full of crap. This is what happens when you post lies. You get caught and have no way out- other than being honest.
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:49 PM   #95
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I’m interested in how much are you making in sales per month / how many employees you have.

You ask if this is an open forum or some good old boys club, but yet you seem to want to communicate via private message. I know I’ve had some dumb questions, the only way to ask them is out in the public forum so everyone can have input, even if all their input is how much of a moron I am. God knows I am sometimes.

In your PM to me you said that there’s somethings about your sales that you don’t want to share with just everyone; but that’s just the thing- why would you make a thread about something you don’t want to share with everyone?

As a business owner I am pretty acutely aware of my numbers. I can point out how I made 26k in 1 day but that doesn’t really tell the whole story. If I fluff it up and add in details that don’t make sense, it’s only natural if someone who understands the numbers of the business calls out for clarity on those claims. If I clam up and resort to playing a victim then... it’s going to be hard to get anywhere.

For me, with what numbers you have willingly shared, including one more would sure do a lot to bring things into perspective - how much per month in sales, and how many employees?
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:35 PM   #96
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Iím interested in how much are you making in sales per month / how many employees you have.

You ask if this is an open forum or some good old boys club, but yet you seem to want to communicate via private message. I know Iíve had some dumb questions, the only way to ask them is out in the public forum so everyone can have input, even if all their input is how much of a moron I am. God knows I am sometimes.

In your PM to me you said that thereís somethings about your sales that you donít want to share with just everyone; but thatís just the thing- why would you make a thread about something you donít want to share with everyone?

As a business owner I am pretty acutely aware of my numbers. I can point out how I made 26k in 1 day but that doesnít really tell the whole story. If I fluff it up and add in details that donít make sense, itís only natural if someone who understands the numbers of the business calls out for clarity on those claims. If I clam up and resort to playing a victim then... itís going to be hard to get anywhere.

For me, with what numbers you have willingly shared, including one more would sure do a lot to bring things into perspective - how much per month in sales, and how many employees?
sounds fair enough. (BTW im not actually the OP in this thread, he dropped off after his first post)

We're a small shop, 2 guys in the field including myself and 1 office manager/CSR.
My total sales for our last fiscal year was $415,000 or $34,600/mo, so not great but enough to keep us going.
After giving up all our NC work about a year ago we've been far more profitable, but have not had enough service calls to make up the shortfall on the NC side.
It was an expected consequence of the change and will take some time to get our sales back up to the $500-600K range.
Never the less, its better than loosing money on the NC jobs like we were before.

In hindsight , I probably approached my first initial posts the wrong way, hence everybody calling me out.
If thats where I screwed up, so be it.
To be clear I'm not here to brag (as you can see, my annual sales numbers are not great, but OK for someone who's been selling only 2 yrs).
I don't get a lot of calls, but manage to do OK with the ones do I get.

The whole point of my initial posts was to illustrate that calls that may at first appear to be small potatoes can actually be good opportunities.
A basic sub $1K job may be easy in-out money, but likely leaves money on the table.
Don't get me wrong, if I were running 3-5 calls/day and averaging $1Kea we'd be doing double what we are now, but I just don't get that many service calls yet.
Instead, I have to make the most of what calls do come in, so the high average ticket tends to make up for the low call volume.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:43 PM   #97
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A little bit of both bro!

There is a great deal of knowledge and experience here, more than any one person can stay current on so the diversity in both is the value of the site...
Thanks for the advice DVR, that makes sense to me.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:07 AM   #98
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I doubt he is lying about his average ticket. He needs to calculate things differently though, as super high jobs that are out of the ordinary for his normal scope of business, will complicate his data.

Lets say this is a set of 10 jobs he is running:

Job #1 = $250.00
Job #2 = $300.00
Job #3 = $350.00
Job #4 = $400.00
Job #5 = $400.00
Job #6 = $485.00
Job #7 = $667.00
Job #8 = $844.00
Job #9 = $899.00
Job #10 = $25,000.00

His average job ticket is $2,959.50

Now when he crunching numbers for his business and he uses the average of $2,959.50 as his baseline, it will skew the data incorrectly. Unless he is consistently selling $25k jobs, he needs to consider the "median" cost of his jobs versus the average cost of his jobs.

His real average "Median" would be $442.50 per job.

No?
I can see your point and have had the same thought, however calculating a median is more complicated than an average.
For a given period of say 1 month, I could simply remove any jobs that sold over 15K from the average calculation.
It would make the average ticket for that period more accurate, however the 15K+ jobs are far and few between.
I definitly do not sell one 1/month, and if im lucky maybe 1/quarter, so I'm unsure what the overall impact on my annual average would be.
What I do know is that in the last 2 quarters of 2018 we had not sold any jobs in the 15-20K range and so my average for that period is lower.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:13 AM   #99
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Thanks for the advice DVR, that makes sense to me.
Anytime!
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:07 AM   #100
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however calculating a median is more complicated than an average.
Yes, but not drastically more. In fact you can use a calculator made just for that if it is easier. You can set up a spreadsheet with it too.

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the 15K+ jobs are far and few between. I definitly do not sell one 1/month, and if im lucky maybe 1/quarter, so I'm unsure what the overall impact on my annual average would be.
What I do know is that in the last 2 quarters of 2018 we had not sold any jobs in the 15-20K range and so my average for that period is lower.
Business decisions should be made on good accurate data, data that reflects the true day to day operations. This is exactly why you shouldn't be using this "Unicorn" data to make any type of business decisions.

Unless they are the norm, they need to be excluded when running certain numbers, like an average ticket. The jobs count to your bottom line, they make you profit and that is great, but they are not a true representation of what you normally do.

Let's say you include those large numbers when trying to figure out what advertising is working. You calculate it out and find that the $1k a month you spend on Home Advisor is brining you in $20k a month, so you keep dumping in money to HA and in fact bump up the budget.

Low and behold you don't seem to be getting the return that you thought you were. Why? Because the outlier job skewed the numbers and made you think something was working and more valuable than it actually was. What you thought was making you money, was really just breaking even or even costing you money.
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