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Old 08-22-2018, 08:33 PM   #1
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Default Help with community project.

Not sure if this is allowed but I am trying to install a dry hydrant at a vacant property of ours. Noticed no water source for 3 miles. And we have a nice pond for a water source. I applied for all the permits and now am able to get some materials but was wondering if anyone wanted to help with a community project with me. Noticed the hose connection and low water level strainer are quite expensive. Any help would be appreciated. Any money not used for the project will be donated to the local fire department.

https://www.gofundme.com/warrensburg...ant-viele-pond

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Old 08-22-2018, 09:17 PM   #2
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Which begs the question.............Why?
If it's a vacant property, what's the purpose? Fire hydrants are for structure fires, not brush fires.

You're property taxes should cover the "county provided" fire suppression.
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Old 08-22-2018, 09:54 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by joebanana View Post
Which begs the question.............Why?
If it's a vacant property, what's the purpose? Fire hydrants are for structure fires, not brush fires.

You're property taxes should cover the "county provided" fire suppression.
I am doing it for the nearby property owners about a dozen+ houses up that way with no nearby source of water. Nearest hydrant 5 miles away nearest dry hydrant 3+ miles away.

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Old 08-22-2018, 11:10 PM   #4
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I dunno man. There's probably a thousand "farm ponds" in my area and the fire department pumpers all have that funny stiff hose thing on the side with a strainer on the end they just flop in the pond and pump water out. No dry hydrant necessary. Seems like an unnecessary expense.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:27 PM   #5
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I am doing it for the nearby property owners about a dozen+ houses up that way with no nearby source of water. Nearest hydrant 5 miles away nearest dry hydrant 3+ miles away.

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Okay, so whats your motivation? With the excessive property taxes in NY, why isn't the county doing their "civic duty" in providing at the very least, WATER? Is there public road access to these properties? Do they all have wells? Is this an unincorporated area? Why don't the property owners chipping in? If you're providing the pond water, the least they could do is find a way to get it there.
What am I missing?
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:32 AM   #6
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I dunno man. There's probably a thousand "farm ponds" in my area and the fire department pumpers all have that funny stiff hose thing on the side with a strainer on the end they just flop in the pond and pump water out. No dry hydrant necessary. Seems like an unnecessary expense.
They often can't truck tankers in fast enough,aerial platforms can use 1000GPM, and choppin' holes in ice in the dead of winter takes time

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Old 08-23-2018, 08:57 AM   #7
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They often can't truck tankers in fast enough,aerial platforms can use 1000GPM, and choppin' holes in ice in the dead of winter takes time
Ever try getting water from a frozen hydrant?

What about access to the hydrant? Whose going to insure that the snow is clear and it's dry enough to get a rig in there without it sinking up to its axles?

Aside from that, as a thirty plus year veteran of the fire service and retired NYS Fire Instructor, I can tell you that water, as high as it is on the priority list, a higher priority for the preservation of life and property lies in the hands of the home owner. Fire prevention education is where you should spend the money.

Additionally, if you're in the fire service, put your efforts toward continuous on going fire training and the importance of properly following the incident command system.

Most times it's not the lack of water but the lack of an incident command system and sound tactical fire fighting that is behind not making a "good stop" resulting in the property tuning into a vacant lot. Or worse, fatalities.

With that in mind, according to the NFPA, 69% of fire departments are comprised of volunteers. Getting volunteers has always been difficult and getting even harder.

Getting volunteers and getting them to say requires good Leaderhip, promoting pride in professionalism, combined with a culture of camaraderie instead of the "good old boy" ego driven departments that prevail today.

Having said all this, my hats off to all my brothers and sisters in the fire service who risk their lives, everyday, to protect our life and property.

And kudos to you for your willingness to give back to your community.
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Old 08-23-2018, 10:45 AM   #8
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We have them pond hydrants around here for the more rural spots. They set up pools and run shuttles when they have to.
Because of the cold winters, I’ve been told that some of these pond hydrants are dry. They use air pressure to keep the pipes empty until needed, same as an attic system.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:41 AM   #9
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I think instead of a dry hydrant, a bunch of these might be better:

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Old 08-23-2018, 02:51 PM   #10
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I think instead of a dry hydrant, a bunch of these might be better:

Along with one of these.

Help with community project.-9693e101-3cbd-4c30-b095-7b752d4adb27.jpg
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:50 PM   #11
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I already flattened out a pad for the hydrant had someone up there with an excavator leveling off a spot. Pipe will go from the pond to the pad where it can have enough dirt and insulation board to prevent freezing. Will be between 4 and 5 feet above water where the pipe comes out of the ground. Highway department and fire company will help maintain. Soil and water conservation may also help with the design and some cost. Already set with getting someone to do digging and should be set to get piping in about a week. Just have to figure out about strainer and hose connection. Everyone seemed like it's a great idea just nobody wanting to make the initial investment.

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Old 08-23-2018, 06:52 PM   #12
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Also this will be just far enough off a two lane paved road to be put of the way but be able to access with one length of suction hose.

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Old 08-23-2018, 08:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrolleston View Post
I am doing it for the nearby property owners about a dozen+ houses up that way with no nearby source of water. Nearest hydrant 5 miles away nearest dry hydrant 3+ miles away.

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so how much are the dozen+ property owners kicking in?
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:01 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by flyboy View Post
Ever try getting water from a frozen hydrant?

What about access to the hydrant? Whose going to insure that the snow is clear and it's dry enough to get a rig in there without it sinking up to its axles?

Aside from that, as a thirty plus year veteran of the fire service and retired NYS Fire Instructor, I can tell you that water, as high as it is on the priority list, a higher priority for the preservation of life and property lies in the hands of the home owner. Fire prevention education is where you should spend the money.

Additionally, if you're in the fire service, put your efforts toward continuous on going fire training and the importance of properly following the incident command system.

Most times it's not the lack of water but the lack of an incident command system and sound tactical fire fighting that is behind not making a "good stop" resulting in the property tuning into a vacant lot. Or worse, fatalities.

With that in mind, according to the NFPA, 69% of fire departments are comprised of volunteers. Getting volunteers has always been difficult and getting even harder.

Getting volunteers and getting them to say requires good Leaderhip, promoting pride in professionalism, combined with a culture of camaraderie instead of the "good old boy" ego driven departments that prevail today.

Having said all this, my hats off to all my brothers and sisters in the fire service who risk their lives, everyday, to protect our life and property.

And kudos to you for your willingness to give back to your community.



Especially when so many young officers and community politicians are trying to get universal performance standards enacted to give them an excuse to weed out the older people and or overweight ones!
mostly because they are setting standards way too high!
Its ridiculous to expect a 45-60 year old to be able to perform as well as a 20 year old when their standards are a challenge for the 20 year old!


Ive argued the point that community participation in gradual fitness programs and counciling on proper diet is far more effective that throwing them under a bus because they are old or a little pudgy



modern training is great but it cannot take the place of a seasoned veteran! I know many of the things I have been trained on are never taught to civilian firefighters!
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:59 AM   #15
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so how much are the dozen+ property owners kicking in?
and....do they get an insurance break for doing so?
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:08 AM   #16
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With that in mind, according to the NFPA, 69% of fire departments are comprised of volunteers. Getting volunteers has always been difficult and getting even harder.
Getting them is one issue, having them all come up to current standards is another.



Quote:
And kudos to you for your willingness to give back to your community
.


Especially smaller communities which lack the $$$'s , i can recall many fundraisers trying to obtain what in bigger departments was a budgeted given
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Old 08-24-2018, 08:56 AM   #17
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2 cents...

Everyone chip in and put in a water tower if there is so much concern.

Ny doesn't dry up does it? Drought wise?
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:13 PM   #18
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2 cents...

Everyone chip in and put in a water tower if there is so much concern.

Ny doesn't dry up does it? Drought wise?
Doubt that would be allowed. Had enough trouble getting permission from the Adirondack park agency to be able to put a pipe in the wetland. And dig in the pond. I think the reason why the fire department and soil and water conservation don't want to get involved and help put it in is because it required a wetland permit that was pretty difficult to obtain. Once everyone found out it required a wetland permit they all stopped working with me. I am taking on this project and going to follow through with at least putting the pipe in the pond. Then if I can't get the funds maybe once the pipe is there they will be on board with finishing. There is acres of water and many springs so plenty of water there.

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Old 08-24-2018, 04:37 PM   #19
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Doubt that would be allowed. Had enough trouble getting permission from the Adirondack park agency to be able to put a pipe in the wetland. And dig in the pond. I think the reason why the fire department and soil and water conservation don't want to get involved and help put it in is because it required a wetland permit that was pretty difficult to obtain. Once everyone found out it required a wetland permit they all stopped working with me. I am taking on this project and going to follow through with at least putting the pipe in the pond. Then if I can't get the funds maybe once the pipe is there they will be on board with finishing. There is acres of water and many springs so plenty of water there.
Sounds like a very worthwhile project and a selfless deed.

I hope you get others on board up there to help with the costs.
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