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Old 05-02-2018, 05:30 PM   #1
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Default 120 volt, 20 amp on #6 wire

Our plant is adding what I am calling a redundant phone system.
They call it a "diversified" system.
The phone people hand me a paper listing what I need to provide for their install.

They require a 120 volt, 20 amp receptacle fed with #6 wire. Any ideas why?

Thanks Steve
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:41 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sblk55 View Post
Our plant is adding what I am calling a redundant phone system.
They call it a "diversified" system.
The phone people hand me a paper listing what I need to provide for their install.

They require a 120 volt, 20 amp receptacle fed with #6 wire. Any ideas why?

Thanks Steve

First thoughts:

1. how far is the homerun, and what size load?
2. They want the #6 going to steel frame for ground?
3. Phone company engineers are idiots.
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Old 05-02-2018, 05:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmut View Post
First thoughts:



1. how far is the homerun, and what size load?

2. They want the #6 going to steel frame for ground?

3. Phone company engineers are idiots.


I’ll say #3, final answer. Or should I phone a friend?


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Old 05-02-2018, 05:49 PM   #4
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I would say #3 they have no idea where I am getting the power, which turns out to be 30 ft. and the building is 200 year old brick and wood.

Tha paper they gave me looked to be a standard form they must give to everyone.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:13 PM   #5
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Are you sure the #6 isn't a separate ground for the phone system. Many of these systems call for a redundant ground
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sblk55 View Post
Our plant is adding what I am calling a redundant phone system.
They call it a "diversified" system.
The phone people hand me a paper listing what I need to provide for their install.

They require a 120 volt, 20 amp receptacle fed with #6 wire. Any ideas why?

Thanks Steve
Is there any reference to BICSI, if so just ignore it, it was created by a bunch of old fat lazy telephone guys.

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Old 05-02-2018, 06:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmut View Post
First thoughts:

1. how far is the homerun, and what size load?
IIRC a #6 CU for hot, neutral, and ground would be 5% voltage drop at 300' for a 16amp load.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:27 PM   #8
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IIRC a #6 CU for hot, neutral, and ground would be 5% voltage drop at 300' for a 16amp load.
See option 3.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:35 PM   #9
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I will check on that tomorrow. I did not have the paper long before the foreman took it to make a copy. Redundant ground would make more sense. I hope you are right, getting a #6 on a 20 amp breaker or 20 amp receptacle may be tough.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sblk55 View Post
Our plant is adding what I am calling a redundant phone system.
They call it a "diversified" system.
The phone people hand me a paper listing what I need to provide for their install.

They require a 120 volt, 20 amp receptacle fed with #6 wire. Any ideas why?

Thanks Steve
What is the transition onto the receptacle going to be?
Terminal block?

I don't think there is a .6 sq mm wire but, it would be a perfect size for about a#12

Last edited by Southeast Power; 05-02-2018 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:04 PM   #11
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IIRC a #6 CU for hot, neutral, and ground would be 5% voltage drop at 300' for a 16amp load.
And most modern electronics have a switching power supply that will tolerate pretty broad range of voltages without a blip.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:06 PM   #12
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The TIA/EIA telecom grounding and bonding standards often call for a ridiculous monstrous ground wire for grounding bus bars.
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Old 05-04-2018, 12:31 AM   #13
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I concur with the ground wire theory ... I've always wondered what it's supposed to do for them ... it's not like any of those 24ga wires are going to outlast a lightning hit ...
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:32 AM   #14
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When I worked at AMP, we made plenty of rings and forks and such to go from #6awg (and larger) to a #8 or #10 screw, so there's terminals in the marketplace to get a #6 on a receptacle screw.

I'm trying to think of what you'd need for bend radius to get the thing in a box. Maybe a deep 4-11 with an RS cover might work . Might need an extension ring on it too. Best of luck.
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:34 AM   #15
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What I know about senseless phone guy requirements: If you don't follow them to the letter you'll get blamed for all sorts of illogical and senseless things from now until eternity. The path of least resistance is to follow the idiotic requirements.
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Old 05-04-2018, 10:10 AM   #16
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The crazy ground stuff is because they’re pushing very weak (a few volts) audio frequency (0-3000 Hz) signals everywhere unshielded. Inductive pickup is the rule of the day so they go bat blank thinking grounding can/will fix signal interference issues rather than the obvious solutions the rest of us use (proper grounding AND shielding, isolation, separating ground systems, use current instead of voltage signals, get away from 60 Hz and the 0 V noise floor).


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Old 05-04-2018, 12:04 PM   #17
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I'm in agreement with the guys that say the #6 is for grounding.
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Old 05-04-2018, 01:14 PM   #18
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You know, when you think about this.

How many electricians do you think out there, take this literally, and run 6 romex or mc to a box, pigtailed a #12 to the #6, and shoved it all in a 1900 box with a raised cover?

Only to find out the #6 on the print was for the ground.

Then they beat a ground rod in the floor, and connected the #6 to it?


I can see this happening after seeing some crazy stuff in my day.
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Old 05-04-2018, 03:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sblk55 View Post
I will check on that tomorrow. I did not have the paper long before the foreman took it to make a copy. Redundant ground would make more sense. I hope you are right, getting a #6 on a 20 amp breaker or 20 amp receptacle may be tough.
I was going to remark that receptacles are not to be connected to wire larger than 10 AWG per the UL listing but that is not contained in RTRT of the UL product spec. It may be a manufacturer instruction that I am remembering so always check those. Also see my comment to MD's post below.

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When I worked at AMP, we made plenty of rings and forks and such to go from #6awg (and larger) to a #8 or #10 screw, so there's terminals in the marketplace to get a #6 on a receptacle screw.

I'm trying to think of what you'd need for bend radius to get the thing in a box. Maybe a deep 4-11 with an RS cover might work . Might need an extension ring on it too. Best of luck.
Per UL product category RTRT, this is only permissible if the manufacturer identifies the terminals for such use. The only manufacturer I know of that does so is Hubbell but there may be one other that I can't remember right now.

This is what the UL product spec says:

"Terminals of a receptacle are permitted for use with certified field-installed crimped-on wire connectors or an assembly, if so identified by the manufacturer."
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Old 05-04-2018, 03:37 PM   #20
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Then there's millions of receptacles with prefabbed ground pigtails installed noncompliantly.
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