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Old 09-13-2018, 06:01 PM   #61
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The "lighting" pig might be 100kva and the "power" pig could only be a 30kva in some setups.
Its really nice to see a 400 amp fused main with 2 x 400 and 1x 150 amp fuse.

Now and then we find a service upgrade where they changed the fused disconnect with a main breaker. It looks a bit strange and of course non-conforming, to see that installation knowing someone had an Oh poop moment.
That would send me into outer orbit.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:10 PM   #62
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I want to comment that there are a million apartments with a 3 phase meter bank that are using 2 of the three phases and a neutral as 120/208 single phase.
You forgot all the condos so the number is 2 million five.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:13 PM   #63
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I

The reality here is that persons here are advocating using a 240 volt ATS in defferance to manufacturers recommendations to connect to a panel that was probably built for that exact reason within a 208 volt facility.

The fact that it might work with ABC brand equipment does not make it right, it just means it can be made to work.

When I specify equipment for an application I specify what is right, which again would be a 208 volt switch, and a 208 volt generator. That way we do not need to jury rig up a 2 phase panel in the field to match what was incorrectly specified in the first place.

I know I am new around here guys, but this is a professional forum and we should be recommending solutions that meet manufacturers specifications and are also industry “best practices”.
I explained why you are wrong (reread my post)and as a professional maybe you should reflect on answers provided and think damn I learned something.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:28 PM   #64
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I explained why you are wrong (reread my post)and as a professional maybe you should reflect on answers provided and think damn I learned something.
Brian

I did learn something today and had a great conversation about it.

I learned about open delta! That was fantastic, and that makes me glad, because I love learning. I REALLY apreciate the dialog I have had in that area today.

I did not learn anything about the proper application of a ATS unit, I already knew that.

I have dealt with customers calling me more than once with the issue in the past of needing to switch two phases of a 208 volt service for one reason or another. My answer to them is the same I gave here, use a ATS that is rated for the service voltage. They did exactly that, buying a three pole 208 volt 3 pole switch and programming it for single phase sensing.

Please note that I specify NFPA 110 compliant switchgear for a living. I cannot get this wrong. I cannot professionally recommend something and risk it getting kicked back on an inspection. I cannot risk a life health safety issue to arise in the equipment I specify.

To be perfectly honest I do not work with any of the Generac residential equipment, prefering to focus my prosessional energy on industrial, commercial, and NFPA 110 compliant switchgear.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:24 AM   #65
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Brian

I did learn something today and had a great conversation about it.

I learned about open delta! That was fantastic, and that makes me glad, because I love learning. I REALLY apreciate the dialog I have had in that area today.

I did not learn anything about the proper application of a ATS unit, I already knew that.

I have dealt with customers calling me more than once with the issue in the past of needing to switch two phases of a 208 volt service for one reason or another. My answer to them is the same I gave here, use a ATS that is rated for the service voltage. They did exactly that, buying a three pole 208 volt 3 pole switch and programming it for single phase sensing.

Please note that I specify NFPA 110 compliant switchgear for a living. I cannot get this wrong. I cannot professionally recommend something and risk it getting kicked back on an inspection. I cannot risk a life health safety issue to arise in the equipment I specify.

To be perfectly honest I do not work with any of the Generac residential equipment, preferring to focus my professional energy on industrial, commercial, and NFPA 110 compliant switchgear.
All we do is commercial, industrial, to include but not limited to electrical testing, controls, switchboard modifications, service and repair of ATSs, switchboards, circuit breakers to include MV and LV equipment and a ton of data center work, we also specify gear all the time, we just finished a 6-1 meg install with control modifications to existing 1970 gear (analog ripped out PLCs installed and programmed). My company was an ASCO service rep, for 15 years. So like you I am fairly adept at contributing to this discussion, though I can be wrong I try to post based on fact as I know them.

As I said in my original post the major manufacturers, do not make different ATS's based on voltages (talking the ATS, not controls) Onan will furnish a 3-pole set up for single phase. After that, depending on the manufacturer the voltage and system configuration can be programmed in the control panel.

Now if you want to see some complicated distribution systems check out Philidelphia, they have 5-wire two phase.

https://electrical-engineering-porta...ction-overview

Second, you came in here and questions others professionalism, so if I seem a tad testy, sorry.

Third Where in Alaska?
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:03 AM   #66
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All we do is commercial, industrial, to include but not limited to electrical testing, controls, switchboard modifications, service and repair of ATSs, switchboards, circuit breakers to include MV and LV equipment and a ton of data center work, we also specify gear all the time, we just finished a 6-1 meg install with control modifications to existing 1970 gear (analog ripped out PLCs installed and programmed). My company was an ASCO service rep, for 15 years. So like you I am fairly adept at contributing to this discussion, though I can be wrong I try to post based on fact as I know them.

As I said in my original post the major manufacturers, do not make different ATS's based on voltages (talking the ATS, not controls) Onan will furnish a 3-pole set up for single phase. After that, depending on the manufacturer the voltage and system configuration can be programmed in the control panel.

Now if you want to see some complicated distribution systems check out Philidelphia, they have 5-wire two phase.

https://electrical-engineering-porta...ction-overview

Second, you came in here and questions others professionalism, so if I seem a tad testy, sorry.

Third Where in Alaska?
Nice background, I’m sure we can share info, and pick up tidbits from each other.

Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct.

I’m in Southcentral Alaska as a base. We are in Big Lake, about 70 miles north of Anchorage. I split my time between there and the office on my boat in Seward Alaska (I am a ocean powerboating /fishing addict ).

I also have a warehouse in Mcallan Texas down the street from Asco’s main warehouse. My clients are nationwide, and throughout the Carribean. I have current projects going on in all four quadrants of the country.
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Last edited by ksanders; 09-14-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:45 PM   #67
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Nice background, I’m sure we can share info, and pick up tidbits from each other.

Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct.

I’m in Southcentral Alaska as a base. We are in Big Lake, about 70 miles north of Anchorage. I split my time between there and the office on my boat in Seward Alaska (I am a ocean powerboating /fishing addict ).

I also have a warehouse in Mcallan Texas down the street from Asco’s main warehouse. My clients are nationwide, and throughout the Carribean. I have current projects going on in all four quadrants of the country.
I used to travel in Alaska before so I know it is a nice area.

I want to say thanks for posting that and I know few members here for very long time. and yes I do work in all level of electrical service and just the other day I done repair the transfer switch ( snake got inside of it )

But yes there is one more oddball system is the true Two phase system I been there with that one and that is pretty much history in most area.
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:37 PM   #68
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Second, you came in here and questions others professionalism, so if I seem a tad testy, sorry.
Seems to happen with most new members myself included

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I’m sure we can share info, and pick up tidbits from each other. If you read more than post for the first year here the knowledge you'll gain will be well worth it

Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct.
Welcome to the forum, there are members here that are more knowledgable than you can imagine from general electrical stuff to highly specialized stuff. Always nice to add to the collection.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:12 PM   #69
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Sorry if I come across as “testy” but I’m just sticking to my opinions. The same as you and other seasoned professionals. I would hope you would respect that short of new information being introduced, I stick up for what I believe is correct.
I was testy.

I’m in Southcentral Alaska as a base. We are in Big Lake, about 70 miles north of Anchorage. I split my time between there and the office on my boat in Seward Alaska (I am an ocean powerboating /fishing addict ).
y.[/QUOTE]

I was born in Anchorage but left at 3, I have been back a few times most recently in May spent 2-1/2 weeks just driving around, the state. Anchorage to Cold Foot, down to Glen Allen, Valdez, Wasilla down to Seward and Homer. Not a cruise kind of guy, we may return next summer still debating.

My sister lived in Point Hope for 10 years
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Old 09-28-2018, 08:31 PM   #70
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Hoping to get back to this next week after getting stalled on this problem. Decision from up top was to go ahead and install what we have since there's no budget to do anything else. If the ATS has problems with the voltage then we're just going to have to run it manually. Not ideal but whatever.
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Old 09-28-2018, 09:39 PM   #71
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Hoping to get back to this next week after getting stalled on this problem. Decision from up top was to go ahead and install what we have since there's no budget to do anything else. If the ATS has problems with the voltage then we're just going to have to run it manually. Not ideal but whatever.
It should be just fine.
Please let us know how it turns out.
Oh and,
Pics please.
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