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Old 01-19-2015, 03:19 PM   #1
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Default 314.16(B)(2) Clamp Fill

I know we have talked about this but this change seems absurd. As I read this it seems to say the volume marked in these plastic boxes is not the true volume so we have to deduct the clamp intrusion into the box but we don't have to count the intrusion as 1 conductor. If this is so why doesn't the manufacturer just mark the box with the actual volume of available space. Am I reading this correctly?


Quote:
314.16(B)(2) Clamp Fill. Where one or more internal cable clamps,
whether factory or field supplied, are present in the box, a
single volume allowance in accordance with Table 314.16(B)
shall be made based on the largest conductor present in the
box. No allowance shall be required for a cable connector with
its clamping mechanism outside the box.
A clamp assembly that incorporates a cable termination
for the cable conductors shall be listed and marked for use
with specific nonmetallic boxes. Conductors that originate
within the clamp assembly shall be included in conductor fill
calculations covered in 314.16(B)(1) as though they entered
from outside the box. The clamp assembly shall not require a
fill allowance, but the volume of the portion of the assembly
that remains within the box after installation shall be excluded
from the box volume as marked in 314.16(A)(2).
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Old 01-19-2015, 03:48 PM   #2
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I see nothing there that changes the avaikable cu in's. Just how to deduct from it.
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
I see nothing there that changes the avaikable cu in's. Just how to deduct from it.
I see this as saying you have to deduct the internal part that cuts into the rectangular space of the box. NO
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:37 PM   #4
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My interpretation is it only constitutes a fill deduction if the 'clamping mechanism' is internal to the box.

A good ex might be the standard old metallic romex connector for 'field supplied' , which could be flopped around either way (hack, i know)

Perhaps a good ex of factory supplied might simply be the plastic tabs that expand to hold the romex?

Now i'm unsure....

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Old 01-19-2015, 04:45 PM   #5
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Most of the plastic nail on boxes have the clamp internal. The clamp protrudes into the box, I really don't get what they are saying
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Old 01-19-2015, 05:19 PM   #6
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Well then possibly some manufacturers clarification is in order Denny

Not so sure how to go about that here.....?

~CS~
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Old 01-19-2015, 05:27 PM   #7
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The last sentence is what gets me.
Quote:
The clamp assembly shall not require a fill allowance, but the volume of the portion of the assembly that remains within the box after installation shall be excluded from the box volume as marked in 314.16(A)(2).
So the assembly that is built into the box does not need to be considered in fill allowance-- in other words you don't need to deduct 1 conductor for a clamp.
but the portion that remains in the box must be excluded from the volume.

What portion? The whole molded assembly? or the two tabs that grip the wire... I don't get it and the manufacturer is no help- I called them last time we discussed the volume on this. Then it was decided we had to deduct for those clamps
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Old 01-19-2015, 05:50 PM   #8
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Origonaly I took it to mean what Steve was saying. The difference between a clamp in the box and a connector that is outside the box.

But after reading it over and over, the thing that gets me is

Quote:
A clamp assembly that incorporates a cable termination
for the cable conductors
What is that? A clamp for the cable, and a terminal strip for the conductors?
It would be nice to see a picture of what kind of box they are talking about.
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:02 PM   #9
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This is what they are talking about-- I think

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Old 01-19-2015, 08:57 PM   #10
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I wired a dishwasher a few weeks ago. It had a cord whip with a white plastic box. I mounted it under the sink. The box had an integral clamp and terminal strip. I added a cord and plug.
Never seen it before. I thought people here have seen it before, and now that is the norm.
That is what comes to mind when I read that article. The plastic nail on I would consider without clamp, and that is why the Romex would need to be secured within six inches of the box.
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Old 01-19-2015, 09:56 PM   #11
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Now i feel like a 1st yr apprentice again... ~CS~
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:48 PM   #12
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Now there's two things right?

The plastic tabs that protrudes into the cavity of the box adding to the deduction of box spacing.

&

If any foreign plastic tie wraps are used they also count as a deduction?

Y / N ?
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:22 PM   #13
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Just switch to Carlon Blue and beat the opening with your screwdriver hard enough to break it right off. Now there is no clamp protruding into the box....
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:32 PM   #14
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I can understand conductors that originate outside the box, and ones that originate inside the box. But what is with conductors that originate inside the clamp?
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
I see nothing there that changes the avaikable cu in's. Just how to deduct from it.
I am asking you this because your "green " dot is on. WTF??? If we are talking about plastic boxes that have the flexible tabs that secure the romex...hopefully, to the box, why does the manufacturer NOT include that fill in the cubic inch volume?
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Old 01-20-2015, 05:32 AM   #16
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By the time I get done with them, I don't think you can call them clamps anymore
That is probably why I always made sure they were stapled within six inches of the box.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:12 AM   #17
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On carlon nail on boxes, are those little square tabs supposed to remain dangling by a thread into the box as a "clamp"? Seems like they'd damage the wire more than secure it.

On old works, I can see how that is supposed to be a clamp, but the square tab I dont get
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabletie View Post
I wired a dishwasher a few weeks ago. It had a cord whip with a white plastic box. I mounted it under the sink. The box had an integral clamp and terminal strip. I added a cord and plug.
Never seen it before. I thought people here have seen it before, and now that is the norm.
That is what comes to mind when I read that article. The plastic nail on I would consider without clamp, and that is why the Romex would need to be secured within six inches of the box.

Im confused, was this a bosch?
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meadow View Post
Im confused, was this a bosch?
Hate, hate, hate, those. When you have a sink on the left side and they come with the built in proprietary located on the right side, receptacle to plug in their supplied white j-box setup that only sports a 24'' cord, have fun trying to get that across to the left side sink cabinet.

And also, name me one builder or homeowner who wants you cutting such a huge knockout in the side of the cabinet to get the box thru, which is going to be the only way you can get it to work if it is indeed a sink cabinet on the left side of the dishwasher instead of having the dishwasher located left of the sink, like Bosch assumes all of them are supposed to be............

German law? Maybe the company president's house the d.w. was on the left side of the sink so he thought all of them were?. What a piece of .......
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:52 AM   #20
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I have always figured out box fill "old school" measure & use Table in 314, not original Article. Those boxes pictured don't count as clamps in southern New England
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