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Old 07-15-2019, 05:59 PM   #1
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Default 347V on 240V

Had a pool guy call and inquire about a pool heat pump. It’s tripping the breaker.

He sent me this picture.

Customer says it’s been working for 4 years till now.

Any idea “why” it has been working?

I’m assuming it’s got close to enough voltage and trying. But it’s 3 phase at a residence according to the name plate

It was originally installed by a local AC
company.

It’s on a 2 pole 30 with #10 wire and pulling 28 amps.

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Old 07-15-2019, 06:42 PM   #2
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The only way I see it ever having worked is if they swapped the compressor with one rated for the actual line voltage. I'd be looking at the label on the compressor.



With way too high off a voltage and rated for 50hz instead of 60 I can't imagine it'd ever work much less for 4 years without being modified somehow.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:45 PM   #3
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There has got to be more to this that is shown here, like maybe a static phase converter and a transformer somewhere that the pool guy is unaware of?
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:53 PM   #4
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All of the above questions are viable questions. But I only know what I’ve been told. I would love to go out and take a look but I haven’t been asked to go out yet.

Just thought I’d post in case I missed some kind simple answer.


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Old 07-15-2019, 08:23 PM   #5
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If there's a VFD involved, it might work for a while, depending on how said VFD is programmed.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRaef View Post
There has got to be more to this that is shown here, like maybe a static phase converter and a transformer somewhere that the pool guy is unaware of?
I can’t imagine a hermitic compressor could or would tolerate being single phased by a crappy static converter. Maybe if they have put some run caps in to kinda create a third phase.
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:10 PM   #7
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Just as strange, how does one achieve 380V 3ø without exceeding 150V to ground?
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:28 PM   #8
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240 Volt three phase delta is that what the customer is getting now at their residential ?,

Typically 208 is common but 240 delta is not super common but it used to be common late 60 early 70's

the only funky way to raise it up to 380 volts line to line is either buck/boost or voltage converter unit that is one of the two item I know they will try to run 380 volts

side note I get 400 volts semi common around in my islands ( philippines )
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:07 AM   #9
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The only way to do it right is to use a transformer.
But costs need to be considered,
It may be better to just buy the correct compressor unit.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:14 AM   #10
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240 Volt three phase delta is that what the customer is getting now at their residential ?,

Typically 208 is common but 240 delta is not super common but it used to be common late 60 early 70's

the only funky way to raise it up to 380 volts line to line is either buck/boost or voltage converter unit that is one of the two item I know they will try to run 380 volts

side note I get 400 volts semi common around in my islands ( philippines )
There are several 60s - 70s subdivisions around here that have 240∆. They have a 3Ø meter, a single phase panel and a delta breaker, usually 30 amp. The only thing the delta breaker feeds is the A/C.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
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There are several 60s - 70s subdivisions around here that have 240∆. They have a 3Ø meter, a single phase panel and a delta breaker, usually 30 amp. The only thing the delta breaker feeds is the A/C.
Do people usually replace an old A/C unit with a new 3-phase unit, or do they put in single phase?
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Do people usually replace an old A/C unit with a new 3-phase unit, or do they put in single phase?
Most of the time I heard they useally go with single phase unit due most of the HVAC company like to order single phase unit due it more common especially under 5 ton class units but once you get over 5 ton it tend to switch over to three phase anyway due some POCO may not like large single phase A/C unit on their system .,,
Basically same idea with large single phase motors useally about 7.5 HP is pretty much on borderline anyway

as for myself I would stay on three phase much as I can for good reason when the unit kick on you dont see the light flickers at all while single phase it do .,,

and with three phase unit I dont have to worry about the damm capacitors go out.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:42 AM   #13
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380V 50Hz is European/Asian system, interesting that it's made in Canada.

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Old 07-16-2019, 10:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolWill View Post
Do people usually replace an old A/C unit with a new 3-phase unit, or do they put in single phase?
Usually, they're single phase units. Sadly, very few guys will use the high leg and another phase to power them. Most guys around here are afraid of the high leg.

If I do one, it's 3Ø. They're far more reliable.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:39 AM   #15
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Default Pool heat pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Service Call View Post
Had a pool guy call and inquire about a pool heat pump. It’s tripping the breaker.

He sent me this picture.

Customer says it’s been working for 4 years till now.

Any idea “why” it has been working?

I’m assuming it’s got close to enough voltage and trying. But it’s 3 phase at a residence according to the name plate

It was originally installed by a local AC
company.

It’s on a 2 pole 30 with #10 wire and pulling 28 amps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How about this.
It is a pool heat pump system. Could it be that the heat was all that was working in that unit and was using pool pump flow?

The unit looks to big for just a 1/4 hp pump, and it has a display on it.
A single phase motor 1/4 hp is only 2.3 amps.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:43 AM   #16
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I think if you look under the hood, you'll see some "field modification". If I had a scrap Asian voltage 3-phase doohickey that I really wanted to use on single phase, I would.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:36 PM   #17
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or it is simply the wrong nameplate...
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:49 AM   #18
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quote - " Any idea “why” it has been working? '



I think their used to be and old trick years ago,
that involved using capacitors to make a pheudo three phase system.


perhaps this is how they did it ?


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Old 07-17-2019, 05:43 PM   #19
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It’d be nice for them to call me to check it out, but alas, I think they’re getting a new unit instead.


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Old 07-17-2019, 06:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Nabs View Post
380V 50Hz is European/Asian system, interesting that it's made in Canada.
No doubt it was an export-only model that never got exported to the right region for whatever reason.

My guess is that some Canadian snowbird put it in their truck and drove it down to Florida and installed it there, not knowing it was the wrong model.
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