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Old 07-12-2016, 05:18 PM   #1
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Default 800 amp feeder

I was pricing out an aluminum 3 phase 120/240 800amp feeder
Pipe and wire materials were about $7,000
Bus Duct about $28,000
I had a 200' run with 3 90s and two tap transitions.

I think I remember bus duct to be somewhat competitive with pipe and wire.
3x the difference, I dont see that much labor saving
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:21 PM   #2
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I just installed 4 ninety foot runs of 400 amp, 277/480 volt bus duct with end feed boxes. Duct and boxes were 44k. Parallel runs of 3/0 copper, longest was 150' shortest was 75' was around 8k and 4"emt and fittings were a few grand. 2 reconditioned breakers were 800, customer already has 2 breakers in place. You would think the stuff is made of gold.
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:32 PM   #3
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Bus duct is in a price insensitive niche market:

1) High rise condos -- the ones sprouting up in downtown Vancouver like mushrooms after a rain. Big savings on labor for LONG vertical routings.

2) Heavy industrial, institutional -- the NECA// IBEW crowd. Bus plugs can be tossed into the mix to suit -- years after the original build -- without much fuss.

It is not priced to compete with EMT and XHHW-2.

Which I think you've figured out.

&&&&&

PG &E loves to establish fire wall breaks with bus duct through massive concrete.

( 3,000 Amp Services on up -- preferred -- 4,000 Amps on up -- practically mandatory. )

{ Getting the pad elevation dead-nuts correct has created no end of headaches over the years. There's no 'give' in the specs. }

Once on the other side, everyone transitions to conventional materials.
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Old 07-12-2016, 10:38 PM   #4
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High rise? Here in Vancouver all we use it ACWU (aluminum teck)

Way cheaper than the labour to install conduit and pull it
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Old 07-13-2016, 07:00 AM   #5
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Years ago o was on a job that was using cable bus. The round conductors inside were insulated and on insulators it was solid on the sides and a mesh or expanded metal top and bottom.

Found it:

http://www.advcablebus.com
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncoast Power View Post
Years ago o was on a job that was using cable bus. The round conductors inside were insulated and on insulators it was solid on the sides and a mesh or expanded metal top and bottom.



Found it:



http://www.advcablebus.com


Used the same stuff but underground
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:38 PM   #7
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I just installed an 800 amp service. Basic 10 foot riser and CT cabinet. The runs were 20 foot copper 600's. the wire alone was a grand. Your doing a 100 foot run and all your materials are only $7K?
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Old 07-13-2016, 06:57 PM   #8
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I just installed an 800 amp service. Basic 10 foot riser and CT cabinet. The runs were 20 foot copper 600's. the wire alone was a grand. Your doing a 100 foot run and all your materials are only $7K?
Copper vs aluminum is the difference I think.

In copper it's almost 10k worth of cable no matter how you slice it.

Aluminum 500mcm xhhw2 is under 2 bucks a foot.

Would need 3 runs, so 9 conductors at 200 feet so say 2000 feet at 2 bucks a foot is $4000 for cable and thats being conservative on sizing and length so 7k is ballpark.


Cheapest copper option. Is probably DLO in tray. 2 runs of 373mcm at around 8 bucks a foot. 8 or 9k plus tray. Assuming tray is even an option.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:01 AM   #9
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Copper vs aluminum is the difference I think.

In copper it's almost 10k worth of cable no matter how you slice it.

Aluminum 500mcm xhhw2 is under 2 bucks a foot.

Would need 3 runs, so 9 conductors at 200 feet so say 2000 feet at 2 bucks a foot is $4000 for cable and thats being conservative on sizing and length so 7k is ballpark.


Cheapest copper option. Is probably DLO in tray. 2 runs of 373mcm at around 8 bucks a foot. 8 or 9k plus tray. Assuming tray is even an option.
Kenny, I thought about the tray but now realize that I could use three sets of 350 AL and that puts my feeder at about 5K or so.
I order it quadplexed and that makes it very easy to payout and pull in. Plus, I can drop to 3" EMT and come out good.
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:01 PM   #10
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I have never installed bus duct, and I've only seen it a handful of times before. But I was under the impression that it was INSANELY EXPENSIVE, and only for customers with large bank accounts.

Is this not correct?
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Old 07-15-2016, 06:39 PM   #11
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I have never installed bus duct, and I've only seen it a handful of times before. But I was under the impression that it was INSANELY EXPENSIVE, and only for customers with large bank accounts.

Is this not correct?
It's for customers that USED TO HAVE large bank accounts.

Biggest earliest niches:

DC electric rail roads -- their massive switching rooms
Electro-chemical industry ( chlor-alkali plants; aluminum reduction ) hot and nasty
High rise buildings -- the continuous vertical support
Automotive industry -- 'over wiring' permitted back-bones of power than need only be tapped at any later date to suit. Pretty tight on the volume dedicated to it, too.

All had high utilization of the conductors, as in 24/7 and high loadings.

( exception: prestige buildings )
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Old 07-16-2016, 04:55 PM   #12
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I saw the used bus sections on Ebay going for $100 per foot.
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MHElectric
I have never installed bus duct, and I've only seen it a handful of times before. But I was under the impression that it was INSANELY EXPENSIVE, and only for customers with large bank accounts. Is this not correct?
Yes. It's expensive.
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Old 07-16-2016, 08:26 PM   #14
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Bus duct only has the advantage where equipment is moved frequently. That's about it.
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:19 PM   #15
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There are other buss systems that aren't designed to have taps on it, just a substitute for pipe and wire with a smaller footprint. I don't remember what it is called though.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:41 AM   #16
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There are other buss systems that aren't designed to have taps on it, just a substitute for pipe and wire with a smaller footprint. I don't remember what it is called though.
Cable Bus?
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:46 AM   #17
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Cable bus vs bus duct:

http://www.mdfbus.com/Forms/BusvsDuct-brown-13.pdf
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:31 AM   #18
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I would run 3-400mcm aluminum in 3 inch emt. and reduce the neutral to about a 4/0 if you can. If you could 45 it instead of a 90 or to that would also help.
The 400 is about $1.49 a foot and the emt is about $2.75

If you really want to go cheap trench it and direct bury some large urd, but you don't wanna do that.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:44 AM   #19
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There are other buss systems that aren't designed to have taps on it, just a substitute for pipe and wire with a smaller footprint. I don't remember what it is called though.
Feeder duct is just that....no bus plugs can be stabbed.

Plug duct can...
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Old 07-19-2016, 01:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by cdslotz View Post
Feeder duct is just that....no bus plugs can be stabbed.

Plug duct can...


I've run tons of that stuff. Just standard busway with no doors on it for swing plugs. Every 100' or so we'll throw a 5' section with 2 switch openings on it though just in case.
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