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Old 09-14-2017, 06:27 PM   #1
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Default Altered UL Listing-Oh My!

JCPL wouldnt put power back on because we pulled the lug and used a split bolt.
They said we altered the meter panels UL listing and wont install meter until we put the lug back.
Problem is, the 1st disconnect is before the meter and neutral is bonded there. Twp inspecter wanted the split bolt at meter so if ground fault occurs theres no stray current going to the faucets, meter panel, or anything else that could potentially be electrified.

So who is right?

JCP&L wouldnt budge even wit it passing inspection,soooooooooo....

We re-installed lug, got meter put in, then cut the tag and ripped out the lug and put split bolt back on.

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Old 09-14-2017, 06:30 PM   #2
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This is a cloudy issue.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
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This is a cloudy issue.
Hence the interest in hearing your replies

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Old 09-14-2017, 06:45 PM   #4
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Hence the interest in hearing your replies

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It's up in the air.

I had a similar issue this week.

An really old 2-family service in which the riser comes inside to a power company owned disconnect and then branches to 2 meters and then 2 main panels. The disconnect is locked since it's unmetered power in there.

The GECs go to the main panels, not that disco owned by the power company.

I called the state and they said that's OK.

It seems like that disco is the main disco for the house, but because it's owned by the PoCo the guy from the state said it's for cold sequencing and it doesn't apply.
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:28 PM   #5
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NEC doesnt seem to apply to POCOs. Milbank sockets we use in CT have a removable bonding strap. Im assuming that meter does not..?
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:52 PM   #6
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NEC doesn't seem to apply to POCOs. Milbank sockets we use in CT have a removable bonding strap. Im assuming that meter does not..?
The NEC states that right up front -- in the beginning.

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Old 09-15-2017, 06:21 AM   #7
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An MBJ should be at the first disco , it's preferable that the GEC's are there, closer to the 'street' & 'earth' despite the old 'accessibility' issue behind a poco seal.

If a split bolt violates a listing, what about all the PV line taps that amount to the same thing within a meter?

Oh, and if two inspectors think a GEC mitigates dwelling ground faults , you've already got a world of explaining to do Trent

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Old 09-15-2017, 06:37 AM   #8
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Poor choice of words pulling out the UL card.

If they had just said that they need it bonded at the meter, I have to assume that is the problem, they should have said so.
I like to ask them for the UL reference. Guarantee they wouldn't have it or know where to look for it.
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:14 AM   #9
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Eh, bond it at the meter , bond it at the panel or even do both. No biggie either way. They are gonna be pissed when they spot that cut tag.

What you should really be worried about is how you pussed out and went thru that window instead of drilling a couple holes. I bet that took longer to **** with than drilling a few holes.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:47 AM   #10
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Inspector did not want 2nd bond at meter. POCO insisted the lugs be reinstalled because we altered the UL listing.

I agree... I was a bit surprised when i seen it piped through the window. I wasnt part of that.

There was an AC unit infront of panel...originally we were digging 6ft deep but ended up going this route to help save the church money. This been going on for a year now.

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Old 09-15-2017, 10:02 AM   #11
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I'm surprised you are allowed to install unmetered service conductors in a building, especially after a disconnect.

I think they are both right. There should be an isolated neutral block installed and grounding lugs for the enclosure. I guess a split bolt for the neutral would be just as good, but with all the attorneys willing to file a lawsuit for the seemingly innocent decisions made in good faith, I can understand the PoCo's position.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:54 PM   #12
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If I read your post correct there is a disconnect prior to the meter, then the meter, then another service disconnect after the meter ?

If thats the case, that disconnect before the meter is the utilities. The GEC does not go there. The utility does what ever they want in that disconnect ( which is bond it with the neutral - utilities are allowed to do this) This disconnect is normally sealed by the utility and marked Not a service disconnect.
The disconnect after the meter is the service disconnect. This is where the GEC goes and the bonding takes place here.
At leaset around here thats how it is handled
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:04 PM   #13
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If I read your post correct there is a disconnect prior to the meter, then the meter, then another service disconnect after the meter ?

If thats the case, that disconnect before the meter is the utilities. The GEC does not go there. The utility does what ever they want in that disconnect ( which is bond it with the neutral - utilities are allowed to do this) This disconnect is normally sealed by the utility and marked Not a service disconnect.
The disconnect after the meter is the service disconnect. This is where the GEC goes and the bonding takes place here.
At leaset around here thats how it is handled
Yes, and originaly the meter was in basement electrical room. They, POCO wanted it outside.
They originally had the GEC in the disco that is now before the meter. You can see it in the pic. That is fed underground, goes to new meter in pic, then comes back down to feed disco and panels.
Those cabinets are just big junction boxes to connect the feeds.
I feel they should understand the situation and have allowed that split bolt for safety reasons as the twp inspector had.

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Old 09-15-2017, 06:10 PM   #14
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What manchestersparky explained is the same as what I posted above. The PoCo may be the physical first disco but it's not counted as the first disco for our purpose.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:16 PM   #15
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trentonmakes.,,

Did your POCO required a cold metering set up ( disconnect switch before meter ) ?

if that the case then both Hackwork and manchestersparky is correct on the info you are looking for.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:19 PM   #16
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What manchestersparky explained is the same as what I posted above. The PoCo may be the physical first disco but it's not counted as the first disco for our purpose.
Right....but inspector wouldnt pass it with GEC at the meter. It was kind of a unique situation. Which is why i posted to hear some feedback.

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Old 09-15-2017, 07:32 PM   #17
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Monday morning quarterbacking here, but .. could you have installed that meter base over by the disconnect and intercepted (rework) the incoming PoCo wires and then feed the existing adjacent disconnect?
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:59 AM   #18
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Right....but inspector wouldnt pass it with GEC at the meter. It was kind of a unique situation. Which is why i posted to hear some feedback.

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This is where you need to be able to tell the inspector to FOff once you know your codes there is not much they can say. Throw a ground rod in at the meter and run a #4 from the water line to the panel.
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:51 PM   #19
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Inspector is a dumbass.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:08 PM   #20
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That church had better say their prayers.

The Poco hates cut tags.
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