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Old 05-17-2016, 06:32 PM   #1
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Default Arc flash gear

Trying to figure out what kind of arc flash gear I need for single phase 240v and three phase 480v? Also has anyone had any experience with buying it from northernsafety.com?
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Old 05-17-2016, 06:59 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by rrolleston
Trying to figure out what kind of arc flash gear I need for single phase 240v and three phase 480v? Also has anyone had any experience with buying it from northernsafety.com?
3 480?

Depends on the calculation.
http://m.ecmweb.com/content/calculat...-energy-levels
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:00 PM   #3
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log [En] = k1 + k2 + 1.081 log [Ia] + 0.0011 G and E = 4.184 Cf En (t 0.2) (610x Dx)

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Old 05-17-2016, 07:02 PM   #4
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Is this personal use or are you purchasing for your business?

I have a full 12cal and a full 40cal.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:06 PM   #5
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Is this personal use or are you purchasing for your business?

I have a full 12cal and a full 40cal.
For the business.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:09 PM   #6
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https://www.northernsafety.com/Produ...hield-Hard-Cap.
This place has my mask. It's excellent.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:22 PM   #7
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Our company supplies category 2 suits to everyone qualified for and having need to do live work, and requires their use in panels 100-400a, and we have a couple 40cal suits at the shop for when we are going in panels over that.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:33 PM   #8
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There's no easy or universal answer. The tables in 70E will give you some guidance, but they are almost never applied correctly because often nobody knows the fault clearing time for their circuits (which is a requirement of using those tables.)

Assuming that you can guess at this based on the current or voltage rating of the panel is hazardous: Neither of those have much to do with the actual incident energy you may be exposing yourself to.

If you're okay with the approach of "Anything is better than nothing" then probably get two sets like spark341 mentioned:

A category 2 set for panels where you can reasonably assume low incident energy (like many house panels).

And a category 4 set for larger gear. This of comes with the understanding that it is very common to see 480V gear where no safe PPE exists, and that a Cat 4 suit won't be adequate protection for everything.

Buy insulated gloves that are sized to fit your hands; they are much more comfortable to work in that way and you get the best dexterity.

Buy the long-coat style of flash suit because it's far easier to wear than the jacket-and-pants style, meaning you're more likely to use it.

Get a blower for the helmet, or look into the anti-fog styles: If you can't see out it, you're also not gonna wear it.
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Last edited by Big John; 05-17-2016 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:52 PM   #9
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What do you guys do when adding breakers in high rise building that don't have any markings as to what Ppe is required?


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Old 05-17-2016, 07:52 PM   #10
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The largest concern with the company is that I have to go into the electrical cabinets for the saws when powered up to reset a micromaster vfd or make adjustments and there is 480v 3 phase in there.
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:58 PM   #11
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At the 3sites I work at we use 2 piece 74 Cal suit plus a blower hood. The hood has 2 muffin fans. It' like working in a wind tunnel. Very nice to work in.
We also have rackinging robots and Chicken Switches DS breaker operators and Pringle Switch operators.

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Old 05-17-2016, 08:11 PM   #12
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What do you guys do when adding breakers in high rise building that don't have any markings as to what Ppe is required?
Realistically? Most people just put on the PPE they imagine will protect them best and do the job. Most of what I see guys do is just pure guess-work.

A lot of people will just put on 40 calorie suits for pretty much everything.
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Old 05-18-2016, 11:32 PM   #13
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I had a big long rant written up but I will spare everyone unless there is more interest in arc flash prevention. I am not claiming myself to be an expert on arc flash but I have come from a company that took arc flash very seriously. Here's my quick two cents on the top things I have seen regarding wearing arc flash PPE....

#1: I can't even keep track of how many times there are contractors racking out breakers just wearing just the jacket and hood of a 2 piece jacket pants hood 40 cal suit. If you buy a kit that has the jacket and pants separate WEAR IT ALL!!!!!!!!! It is not going to be fun getting sever burns to your junk. Yeah the suits are hot and not terribly comfortable or quick to put on but the alternative is a hell of a lot worse.

#2 When wearing the face shield or flash hood, many people instinctively turn their face away from the equipment during operations. This might be good practice with basic safety glasses on opening a disconnect switch, but with the arc flash rated face shields and hoods they are designed to take the flash head on. The protective face shield protects from flying equipment debris in the event of a flash, and it is there to protect your face. That same protection is not typically built into the back of the flash hood! Still if you can stand off to the side or distance yourself from the equipment by all means, but don't face away from the equipment!
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:58 AM   #14
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...Many people instinctively turn their face away from the equipment during operations. This might be good practice with basic safety glasses on opening a disconnect switch, but with the arc flash rated face shields and hoods they are designed to take the flash head on....
Good point, I've caught myself doing that.

Turning to the side can expose the gap between the edge of your shield and face. If you don't want to be looking directly at it, then look down towards the floor.
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big John
Buy the long-coat style of flash suit because it's far easier to wear than the jacket-and-pants style, meaning you're more likely to use it.
The rest of your advice I agree with, but it was my understanding that the long coat style suits were no longer recommended, due to the "chimney effect" causing burns to the wearer inside the suit.
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Old 05-19-2016, 03:52 PM   #16
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The rest of your advice I agree with, but it was my understanding that the long coat style suits were no longer recommended, due to the "chimney effect" causing burns to the wearer inside the suit.
I honestly don't know. You aren't the first person I've heard say that, but I can't find any actual documentation to support it. If you are familiar with something, I'd be interested to read it.
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Old 05-19-2016, 05:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big John
I honestly don't know. You aren't the first person I've heard say that, but I can't find any actual documentation to support it. If you are familiar with something, I'd be interested to read it.
I believe he is right. But can't provide the documentation at the moment.
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:22 PM   #18
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Buy the highest cal you need and several levels of hoods, hard hats with shields.

Having a 30 suit in a 10 area won't hurt.


Take training and avoid being in a position where you need it.

Last class I took there was a discussion about layering and the additive affect, two experts two varying opinions.
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Old 05-19-2016, 08:37 PM   #19
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Doesn't the latest version of 70E prohibit layering to achieve a calorie rating?

I.e.: You could put on three 20 cal. suits if you want, but as far as they are concerned it still only adds up to 20 cals of protection.
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Old 05-19-2016, 09:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Doesn't the latest version of 70E prohibit layering to achieve a calorie rating?

I.e.: You could put on three 20 cal. suits if you want, but as far as they are concerned it still only adds up to 20 cals of protection.
Just finished a 70E class and the instructor was debating this he was on the side of layering, I will look when I get some time.

I am running like a mad man getting ready for vacation on Friday, so........
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