Arc-Flash Studies - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum

Switched · 03-01-2013, 12:22 AM

This will be the first 480v work, or larger commercial job, that I have done since the labeling has been required......well on my own anyway!

What are the requirements?

We will be installing a 208v transformer, stepping it up to 480v. Installing a disconnect for two pieces of equipment and then connecting them. To what extent will I be responsible for labeling the existing equipment and or the stuff we install. What information will I need? Is there software to purchase? Are there companies that we can sub this out to?
Thanks!

***chicken steve*** · 03-01-2013, 05:45 AM

I'm unsure of what Calif would require Switch, here i've only been held to applying the generic arc flash sticker.

~CS~

eric7379 · 03-01-2013, 07:23 AM

You should only be required to label it according to 110.16, which is just the generic label.

An arc flash coordination study should be the responsilibty of the customer, unless you were specifically contracted to do it as your scope of the project. If that is the case, you really need to sub this out to someone else that does it and is experienced in doing. It is not just a simple matter of buying the software for it and doing it.

Switched · 03-01-2013, 08:04 AM

I'll double check with some local guys, but that sounds good. I don't want to do the study. I would have just subbed it out.

Thanks!

***chicken steve*** · 03-01-2013, 08:17 AM

Switch, you might want to check with your poco there.

they may have engineers that'll give you #'s to the point of attacthment for free

you might even be able to throw said #'s at the archy, and foist it off on him/her , if the project has one

~CS~

ponyboy · 03-01-2013, 08:21 AM

what eric said. unless it is specified that an arc flash study be done you just slap a generic arc flash warning label on all equipment. lately i've just always put on every panel the voltage, panel name, arc flash warning, and source if its applicable. i've also been required to list available fault current at the MDP, this info is easy enough to get just call the poco

Switched · 03-01-2013, 08:33 AM

Surprisingly the BO owns the property and has all the existing plans and specs for the building.

Most of the information, as far as the building goes, is on the plans. He has all the information from the Poco transformer to the building. All the equipment specs. etc......

Not something I was really wanting to get into, as we don't do it often enough to justify the costs. If it is an issue, we will spec. it out. There is no GC, just adding some electrical equipment.

Zog · 03-01-2013, 09:31 AM

As mentioned above it is the responsibility of the owner, not the installer. Arc flash studies are not something to take lightly, I have $40k invested in software and in CA you need a PE stamp.

If they already have a study it is easy to modify it for another pice of equipment.

Colorado Fatboy · 03-01-2013, 09:36 AM

Around here we've only been required to list the available fault current. As others have said the POCO will supply you with the info you need.

Switched · 03-01-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zog

As mentioned above it is the responsibility of the owner, not the installer. Arc flash studies are not something to take lightly, I have $40k invested in software and in CA you need a PE stamp.

If they already have a study it is easy to modify it for another pice of equipment.

Thanks for that bit of information! Like I said, not something I really wanted to have the responsibility for.

SteveHudgik · 03-04-2013, 10:46 AM

NFPA 70E 2012 requires the following information on arc flash labels:

At least one of the following:
- Available incident energy and the corresponding working distance
- Minimum arc rating of clothing
- Required level of PPE
- Highest Hazard/Risk category (HRC) for the equipment
Nominal system voltage
Arc flash boundary

Determining the arc flash boundary requires an arc flash study. As stated above, this is the responsibility of the equipment owner.

I wrote an article about this, as well as what OSHA says about this, that is online here: http://www.graphicproducts.com/artic...-2012-osha.php

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switched

This will be the first 480v work, or larger commercial job, that I have done since the labeling has been required......well on my own anyway!

What are the requirements?

We will be installing a 208v transformer, stepping it up to 480v. Installing a disconnect for two pieces of equipment and then connecting them. To what extent will I be responsible for labeling the existing equipment and or the stuff we install. What information will I need? Is there software to purchase? Are there companies that we can sub this out to?
Thanks!

brian john · 03-04-2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switched

I'll double check with some local guys, but that sounds good. I don't want to do the study. I would have just subbed it out.

Thanks!

We perform quite a few ARC Flash studies (we do all the field work) and sub the engineering out. It is always nice to make money on someone�s else�s labor.

Switched · 03-04-2013, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian john

We perform quite a few ARC Flash studies (we do all the field work) and sub the engineering out. It is always nice to make money on someone’s else’s labor.

I don't know that I would get enough of this type of work to justify the costs associated with doing it properly. Plus......I have read your posts, you have way more knowledge than I do!

electricalcj · 03-11-2013, 11:08 AM

Only time you go beyond the required sticker, if the specs say so (arc flash study from the manf.)

03-01-2013, 12:22 AM	#1
Switched Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: California Posts: 6,129 Rewards Points: 8,986	Arc-Flash Studies This will be the first 480v work, or larger commercial job, that I have done since the labeling has been required......well on my own anyway! What are the requirements? We will be installing a 208v transformer, stepping it up to 480v. Installing a disconnect for two pieces of equipment and then connecting them. To what extent will I be responsible for labeling the existing equipment and or the stuff we install. What information will I need? Is there software to purchase? Are there companies that we can sub this out to? Thanks!

03-01-2013, 08:21 AM	#6
ponyboy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: parts unknown Posts: 8,051 Rewards Points: 709	what eric said. unless it is specified that an arc flash study be done you just slap a generic arc flash warning label on all equipment. lately i've just always put on every panel the voltage, panel name, arc flash warning, and source if its applicable. i've also been required to list available fault current at the MDP, this info is easy enough to get just call the poco __________________ Too dumb for New York, too ugly for LA

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03-01-2013, 05:45 AM	#2
*chicken steve* Retired Account Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: the Green Mountain state Posts: 39,722 Rewards Points: 14,650	I'm unsure of what Calif would require Switch, here i've only been held to applying the generic arc flash sticker. ~CS~

03-01-2013, 07:23 AM	#3
eric7379 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: IL Posts: 878 Rewards Points: 2,182	You should only be required to label it according to 110.16, which is just the generic label. An arc flash coordination study should be the responsilibty of the customer, unless you were specifically contracted to do it as your scope of the project. If that is the case, you really need to sub this out to someone else that does it and is experienced in doing. It is not just a simple matter of buying the software for it and doing it.

03-01-2013, 08:04 AM	#4
Switched Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: California Posts: 6,129 Rewards Points: 8,986	I'll double check with some local guys, but that sounds good. I don't want to do the study. I would have just subbed it out. Thanks!

03-01-2013, 08:17 AM	#5
*chicken steve* Retired Account Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: the Green Mountain state Posts: 39,722 Rewards Points: 14,650	Switch, you might want to check with your poco there. they may have engineers that'll give you #'s to the point of attacthment for free you might even be able to throw said #'s at the archy, and foist it off on him/her , if the project has one ~CS~

03-01-2013, 08:33 AM	#7
Switched Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: California Posts: 6,129 Rewards Points: 8,986	Surprisingly the BO owns the property and has all the existing plans and specs for the building. Most of the information, as far as the building goes, is on the plans. He has all the information from the Poco transformer to the building. All the equipment specs. etc...... Not something I was really wanting to get into, as we don't do it often enough to justify the costs. If it is an issue, we will spec. it out. There is no GC, just adding some electrical equipment.

03-01-2013, 09:31 AM	#8
Zog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 5,446 Rewards Points: 1,096	As mentioned above it is the responsibility of the owner, not the installer. Arc flash studies are not something to take lightly, I have $40k invested in software and in CA you need a PE stamp. If they already have a study it is easy to modify it for another pice of equipment.

03-01-2013, 09:36 AM	#9
Colorado Fatboy Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Colorado Front Range Posts: 53 Rewards Points: 77	Around here we've only been required to list the available fault current. As others have said the POCO will supply you with the info you need.

03-11-2013, 11:08 AM	#14
electricalcj Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 296 Rewards Points: 260	Only time you go beyond the required sticker, if the specs say so (arc flash study from the manf.)