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Unread Yesterday, 09:12 PM   #21
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Found it years ago, didn't take a shot. Just cram one in and tell me it fits correctly. I don't mess with panels any more.
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Unread Yesterday, 09:29 PM   #22
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Found it years ago, didn't take a shot
If you only saw it happen once, then the overheating could’ve been from anything. If the correct breaker was in that position it might have overheated as well.

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Just cram one in and tell me it fits correctly. I don't mess with panels any more.
I’ve installed them and know exactly what you mean.

I just don’t think that slight cant is putting enough strain on the spring loaded jaws to make any difference.
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Unread Yesterday, 09:49 PM   #23
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For the most part, I don't get excited over the wrong breaker type in the wrong panel.
GE has always been behind in AFCI "technology" Every time a different type of arc fault breaker has come out, they had Siemens breakers sticker listed for their panels - Siemens breakers with THQ and GE stickers on them.

Eaton CL breakers are exactly the same as BR other than the silk screening on the face and the leaflet included in the box. They are listed for use in the other 3 panels and most of the obsolete brand 1" breaker panels. Ironically, about the only panel a CL breaker is not listed for use is in an Eaton BR panel. Remember, same casing

Reliance modifies Siemens panels as manual generator transfer panels. They are UL listed for use with all 4 brand breakers. Their newer Pro/Tran switches are also listed for use with all 4.

Generac Homelink transfer switches are listed for use with Q, HOM and BR

Every Milbank meter bank I've seen is listed for use with all 4

I'm sure I missed plenty of examples, but for the most part I have adopted the same slogan as USPS flat rate boxes. If It fits, it ships. I've been doing this long enough to know what is going to fit just fine, and what might be a problem in the future
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Unread Yesterday, 09:51 PM   #24
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If you only saw it happen once, then the overheating could’ve been from anything. If the correct breaker was in that position it might have overheated as well.


I’ve installed them and know exactly what you mean.

I just don’t think that slight cant is putting enough strain on the spring loaded jaws to make any difference.
I'm just passing on the information. If you feel confident in your choices go for it, do what you believe is right.
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Unread Yesterday, 10:28 PM   #25
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Not arguing, but I have never heard of a resi company (maybe a big union company that also does resi?) That gives two ****s about ppe besides a cursory mention in a manual as a cya.

You have much better solar guys in your area than here, I'd be surprised if those Yahoo's can spell electricity. None are jws or masters.

I agree, it should be limited to certified electricians and the homeowners. No other company or trade should be allowed, and technically I think that's already a rule, but ain't never gonna be enforced.
I totally agree. No right minded person would go commando and suit up if they were working on a residential panel. Some rules are there to be broken.
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Unread Today, 12:01 AM   #26
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I'll put on my gloves and at least safety rated sunglasses if I have to pull a meter, I've seen the line side jaws come off once and plasma ball itself
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Unread Today, 06:09 AM   #27
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I just don’t think that slight cant is putting enough strain on the spring loaded jaws to make any difference.
Here's a question for you (or anyone who has seen a fair number of fair breakers over the years):

Would you say that of the failed breakers you've found over the years, mismatched have failed any more often than correctly matched, correctly installed?
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Unread Today, 07:04 AM   #28
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Here's a question for you (or anyone who has seen a fair number of fair breakers over the years):

Would you say that of the failed breakers you've found over the years, mismatched have failed any more often than correctly matched, correctly installed?
I wrote down your answer on paper and mailed it to you.
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Unread Today, 07:11 AM   #29
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I wrote down your answer on paper and mailed it to you.
Please use a fountain pen and linen paper in the future.
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Unread Today, 09:27 AM   #30
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Here's a question for you (or anyone who has seen a fair number of fair breakers over the years):

Would you say that of the failed breakers you've found over the years, mismatched have failed any more often than correctly matched, correctly installed?
I've seen mismatched breakers plenty of times, only once did a GE breaker go tits-up in a Siemens panel. Most burn outs are matched sets.
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Unread Today, 09:31 AM   #31
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I have seen many burnt up breaker-busbar connections. And since most of the panels around here are older, a lot of those instances were with breakers not rated for those panels.

But there is no reason to believe that the cause was because the breaker was somehow not compatible with the panel.
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Unread Today, 10:00 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
I have seen many burnt up breaker-busbar connections. And since most of the panels around here are older, a lot of those instances were with breakers not rated for those panels.

But there is no reason to believe that the cause was because the breaker was somehow not compatible with the panel.
That's what I am getting at. You can't really say why it fried in any one case. But mismatches are not unusual, so lots of people will see enough to have an idea whether mismatched breakers burn up bus bars significantly more often than properly matched breakers.

For example if half the burnt busbars you find are under mismatched breakers, that's a clear sign that the mismatches are far more prone to this problem, because not nearly 50% of breakers out there are mismatches.
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Unread Today, 10:27 AM   #33
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For example if half the burnt busbars you find are under mismatched breakers, that's a clear sign that the mismatches are far more prone to this problem, because not nearly 50% of breakers out there are mismatches.
I don’t believe you can accurately draw that conclusion from that circumstance. Remember, correlation does not equal causation.

Seeing more burnt up connections with mismatched breakers can simply be due to a factor of age. The connection that’s been stressed for many decades is more prone to failing. And a panel that has been there for many decades is more prone to having mismatched breakers. So the correct breaker in that exact position might have failed at the exact same time.

I don’t know if we’ll ever know for sure, but in the end I don’t think anyone (other than the gayest Mike Holtish by-the-book-tard) realistically believes that mismatching breakers is a problem other than the concern over the slight cant with Homeline- which is a reasonable concern, just not something that I think is an issue.
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Unread Today, 10:34 AM   #34
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No... I don't, but if you work for a company that requires you to I would. Most residential solar companies require it. Usually the JW that does the tie in at the panel will bring out his PPE's and set them on the ground next to the panel just in case the boss man shows up.

I really doubt that OSHA drives around looking for people working on residential panels without PPE's. Inspectors don't care they pull covers as well without protective gear.

IMO Removing or replacing a cover on a panel is just as dangerous as working on energized circuits probably more so. If I had my way only electricians would be allowed to inspect electrical panels.
Residential solar DC segment runs nominally at 480V and with amperage from nominal 5A and up. A10KVA central inverter system would typically 25A. That’s a whole lot of ouch.

That said, I don’t suit up. i do remove my wedding ring and wear safety glasses and carefully watch my P’s and Q’s when working the DC component. It’s not my happy place.
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Unread Today, 11:15 AM   #35
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Residential solar DC segment runs nominally at 480V and with amperage from nominal 5A and up. A10KVA central inverter system would typically 25A. That’s a whole lot of ouch.

That said, I don’t suit up. i do remove my wedding ring and wear safety glasses and carefully watch my P’s and Q’s when working the DC component. It’s not my happy place.
I may have gone a bit overboard with PPE’s. Removing jewelry, using eye protection, gloves and cotton shirt is probably good enough for anyone working on a residential service. I have spent less time working in the residential arena than commercial or industrial but I have actually seen more accidents in residential work. Just don’t get complacent is probably the best advice.
Here is a link to an article about home inspector safety and a photo of what ark flash look like.
https://www.nachi.org/arc-flash-dangers.htm

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Unread Today, 11:33 AM   #36
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The thing about cotton is that it’s not flame resistant, but it doesn’t turn into napalm when it ignites like common textile synthetic fibers tend to.
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Unread Today, 01:14 PM   #37
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The thing about cotton is that it’s not flame resistant, but it doesn’t turn into napalm when it ignites like common textile synthetic fibers tend to.
At least it won't melt into your skin like nylon would. I hope I didn't scare the inspector. My point is to be safe. Thanks for the info about DC solar voltages I will take extra caution if I ever need to work on that type of system.
I remember the good old days when electricians did service change outs without the involvement of the utility company. Cutting service drops on overhead feeds and insulating underground feeders and carefully sliding panels into position. It was unsafe but was also common practice.
Don't fear electricity, respect it. No one want to work with a guy who has shaky hands and is working in a live panel.
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