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Old 12-23-2016, 09:05 PM   #1
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Default CA Title 24 questions

It has been many years since I have done commercial work and I'm trying to remember the title 24 codes.
What I have is a tilt-up building with office area and I am just doing some work in the warehouse part of the building. I'll be demoing out a bunch of 2 lamp fluorescent lights hanging from jack chain. They will be putting T-bar in then I'll be putting a bunch of LED 2x4 lights. All the drawings show is two 3-way switches to control all the lights. No LCP or Occupancy switches.

For title 24, the lights need to be automatically shut off somehow correct? Would just two wall occupancy sensors work in the place of the 3-way switches? Or does it need a type of lighting control panel or time clock with a by-pass switch?

The lights that are specified are LED 2x4 with 0-10V. From what I remember, the 0-10v is only if you'd like to dim the lights correct? If they only want the lights on/ off, then just the 277v line voltage will be fine to just do on/ off and we don't need to run the 2 conductor for the 0-10v correct?

Thanks
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Old 12-23-2016, 11:21 PM   #2
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Some of the little smaller towns do not enforce tile 24 . And do not forget daylight harvesting .
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:58 AM   #3
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I am not sure if the smaller towns enforce it or not but these drawings say it needs to be title 24 compliant.
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Old 12-24-2016, 10:01 AM   #4
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The Leviton 3 way occupancy sensor switches work great. Way better than their stupid gfi receptacles do.
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Old 12-24-2016, 10:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by macmikeman View Post
The Leviton 3 way occupancy sensor switches work great. Way better than their stupid gfi receptacles do.
Great, thanks. I will look at those. Also I am curious, since the work is for only about half of their warehouse, That I don't think I would be required to bring the other half to the title 24 regulations that I am not even touching. Correct?
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Old 12-24-2016, 11:38 AM   #6
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Great, thanks. I will look at those. Also I am curious, since the work is for only about half of their warehouse, That I don't think I would be required to bring the other half to the title 24 regulations that I am not even touching. Correct?
Is the "half" greater or less than 50%?
Calculate carefully!

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Old 12-24-2016, 12:17 PM   #7
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Is the "half" greater or less than 50%?
Calculate carefully!

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If you count the entire building that he owns then the work area is about 25% of the building size. If you are just looking at the warehouse size we will be doing the work in, then the work area in the warehouse is probably 75% of the whole warehouse area.

Is there a regulation if you are modifying more than 50% then you need to bring it all up to title 24 code?
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Old 12-24-2016, 12:46 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by paul_arc View Post
If you count the entire building that he owns then the work area is about 25% of the building size. If you are just looking at the warehouse size we will be doing the work in, then the work area in the warehouse is probably 75% of the whole warehouse area.

Is there a regulation if you are modifying more than 50% then you need to bring it all up to title 24 code?
Break yourself of the habit of correcting the prints.

This is a Plans and Specifications bid... so bid the plans and specifications.

You can only hope that the job can't be finalled as drafted. Then you save the day with extras.

BTW, I'm somewhat surprised that the owner wants to throw money away on a T grid ceiling.

I must make sense to him, I suppose.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:47 PM   #9
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Break yourself of the habit of correcting the prints.

This is a Plans and Specifications bid... so bid the plans and specifications.

You can only hope that the job can't be finalled as drafted. Then you save the day with extras.

BTW, I'm somewhat surprised that the owner wants to throw money away on a T grid ceiling.

I must make sense to him, I suppose.
Yeah, I really don't understand the T-bar grid in the shop either, It makes no sense to me. Right now its all open to the ceiling and not a cluster mess like you often see. It's nice and clean.
The owner wants to do the whole project as T&M which I don't have any problem with, I just want to get everything wired correctly with the scissor lift now before the grid goes in. Ceiling now is around 25' up, the grid is going at 10'.

Any idea about title 24 to the rest of the shop that I wont be working in? The only thing I'm doing in there is separating the fluorescent lights from the new work area and existing work area, then wire the existing ones back to the existing switches.
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Old 12-24-2016, 03:54 PM   #10
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Ask the person who drew the plans. If they don't know, they need to call the city and find out.
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Old 12-27-2016, 04:02 PM   #11
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You have 2 issues when installing warehouse lighting besides using high efficacy fixtures.

"All luminaires shall be functionally controlled with manually switched ON and OFF lighting controls. Each area enclosed by ceiling-height partitions shall be independently controlled.
EXCEPTION 1 to Section 130.1(a)2: In malls, auditoriums, retail and wholesale sales floors, industrial facilities, convention centers, and arenas, the lighting control shall be located so that a person using the lighting control can see the lights or area controlled by that lighting control, or so that the area being lit is annunciated."

and

"Shut-OFF Controls
1. In addition to lighting controls installed to comply with Sections 130.1(a) and (b), all installed indoor
lighting shall be equipped with controls that meet the following requirements:
A. Shall be controlled with an occupant sensing control, automatic time-switch control, signal from another building system, or other control capable of automatically shutting OFF all of the lighting when the space is typically unoccupied; and
B. Separate controls for the lighting on each floor; and
C. Separate controls for a space enclosed by ceiling height partitions not exceeding 5,000 square feet; and EXCEPTION to Section 130.1(c)1C: In the following function areas the area controlled may not exceed 20,000 square feet: Malls, auditoriums, single tenant retail, industrial, convention centers, and arenas."

Reducing it down means you must have switches to manually shut off lighting and the lighting must be visible from the switch location or have a pilot light, and you must have a means to automatically shut off lighting when space is unoccupied.

There's more to it than that but that's the main deal.
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Last edited by FaultCurrent; 12-27-2016 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 12-27-2016, 04:08 PM   #12
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Existing wiring modifications are different, you need the table to figure it out.

"Lighting System Alterations shall meet the applicable requirements in TABLE 141.0-E and the following:
a. Lighting System Alterations include alterations where an existing lighting system is modified, luminaires are replaced, or luminaires are disconnected from the circuit, removed and reinstalled, whether in the same location or installed elsewhere.
EXCEPTION 1 to Section 141.0(b)2Iii: Alterations that qualify as a Luminaire
Modification-in-Place."
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