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Old 05-06-2018, 06:07 AM   #1
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Default Can We Use General Purpose Inverter for Crane?

My subcontractor use ABB ACS580 instead of ACS880.
They argue that can program to control crane with it.

Load capacity and motor power is no problem here,
but the purpose of inverter I concern here.

Is there any advice?
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Old 05-06-2018, 08:22 AM   #2
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Are you a general contractor? Are you in the middle east or the orient?

Welcome to ET,
Please fill out your profile.

Give us some more information or ask your electrician.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:49 AM   #3
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In general, crane duty VFD's give you some extra parameters in the "application" that runs inside the drive to make programming for a crane easier.

Purchasing replacement VFD's can sometimes be tricky. There are (very oftem) three things that should match. The model number of the drive, the firmware/software revision, and the and the name/number of the "application" running in the drive. Just went through that with a Vacon drive the other day. Model of the drive was right. Software rev level was right... but some of the parameters I needed were plumb missing. Come to find out I got a "naked" drive from the distributor and I really needed one running a custom application for my purpose.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:58 AM   #4
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Most applications like this require special considerations
Special in that the programming and operation are specific to cranes and similar equipment.
Is the drive software designed for this purpose?
Safety is the issue. Any drive can be programmed and set up to be used. But specific crane and hoist parameters are not available onboard a stock control/drive.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:17 AM   #5
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Crane drive manufacturers charge a lot not only for the few extra settings...some of which are very useful like antisway, anti-two block, etc., but also the big difference is the liability and warranty/insurance behind it in case something goes wrong which is why they often charge 300% more. I know the latest Altivar 900 series from Schneider has the crane app stuff but normal pricing.

I wouldn’t waste time on ABB regardless. Ten years ago they were very easy to work with and easy to get...no more! They’ve basically lost most of the commercial HVAC business in the US that they had. The companies that used Baldor (never mind it was a crap drive) first started with ACS series then mostly went elsewhere. And even when they are identical you can’t buy for instance an HVAC or crane drive unless you are in the right “channel” even if it’s identical to the industrial series. On top of that ABB is the only one selling super noisy or I mean DTC drives although they’re throwing in the towel. Everyone else adopted space vector modulation which is the one big advantage of DTC. The parameterless DTC concept fails except at high speed and torque where ALL drive algorithms work even with bad settings.


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Old 05-06-2018, 12:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulengr View Post
Crane drive manufacturers charge a lot not only for the few extra settings...some of which are very useful like antisway, anti-two block, etc., but also the big difference is the liability and warranty/insurance behind it in case something goes wrong which is why they often charge 300% more. I know the latest Altivar 900 series from Schneider has the crane app stuff but normal pricing.
When I was a distributor, I had to go through another vendor or pay through the roof for a drive designed for crane and hoists.
Very similar to the HVAC sector.

There were no on the shelf/stock crane and hoist controls.
They were always special and we did not even have multipliers for them.
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:20 PM   #7
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What is the motor used for? The hoist or the travel? Hoisting takes specialized capabilities, travel does not.
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Old 05-07-2018, 01:20 AM   #8
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If you have anti-sway as a built in drive function travel requires special functions and most likely needs to communicate to the hoist drive since you need to know pendulum length and possibly weight to make it work right, although all the work (reverse move or stopping and accelerating) is done by the travel drive.


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Old 05-07-2018, 01:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
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What is the motor used for? The hoist or the travel? Hoisting takes specialized capabilities, travel does not.
For Hoist Up Down.
For Open Close Grab.
And for Jib Boom.

It is a Ship Unloader for Coal from Barge(?) to Truck.
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulengr View Post
If you have anti-sway as a built in drive function travel requires special functions and most likely needs to communicate to the hoist drive since you need to know pendulum length and possibly weight to make it work right, although all the work (reverse move or stopping and accelerating) is done by the travel drive.


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Right on. Hoist is important to have the "right" drive for safety's sake (and maybe two-block and master-slave), but travel is the important one to me. Keeps people from crashing into things so often if the sway control is done by pure drive math and not encoder tethers.
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Old 05-07-2018, 10:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulengr View Post
If you have anti-sway as a built in drive function travel requires special functions and most likely needs to communicate to the hoist drive since you need to know pendulum length and possibly weight to make it work right, although all the work (reverse move or stopping and accelerating) is done by the travel drive.


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Originally Posted by MDShunk View Post
Right on. Hoist is important to have the "right" drive for safety's sake (and maybe two-block and master-slave), but travel is the important one to me. Keeps people from crashing into things so often if the sway control is done by pure drive math and not encoder tethers.
My point was that what you need to accomplish traveling functions is built-in to most VFDs now, but not so with the special torque proving features you need if you have a hoist. I don’t know ABB drives as well as I used to, but I know for sure that the torque proving capability will be in their most advanced drive, the ACS880. It may not be available in the other one, which may be what is behind the concern with switching.
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