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Old 08-26-2017, 05:22 PM   #1
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Exclamation Connecting 1200 amp service

Hi folks, I got a situation with a service I am installing. When I had originally was hired for this project a year ago, it was for doing the electrical work in a renovated building with what they called for a 400amp service.

After projects changes, mainly due to lack of available gas, electric heat was added requiring a 800amp service. However, they changed again and added a commercial spot at ground level, eleminating storage rooms, that requires a 400 amp service.

With all that, we notified the power co. They approved it and said they would upgrade their pole mounted transformer. I proceeded to order a 1200amp disconnect feeding the 10 required meters. It was spec to have 4 mast up with 500mcm copper conductors. Upon confirming with power co, they said I would only need 3 mast.

Now with that installed, the power co shows up and tells my crew that we our responsible for connecting my 3 sets of wires together, so there is only one wire per leg for them to connect to. They would not provided fittings or wire size that they are running from pole.

My supply house only has clamps for upto 750mcm cable, and no one there has ever encountered this before. We tried calling other people at power co, and the only one we can get a hold of is the lady that does the scheduling, and her response is to contact an electrical engineer. I've talked to two of them now, and they both say it's the power co engineers that need to answer with what they need, but yet they won't answer or return calls.

Has anyone encountered this before? Or can recommend what connectors to use. I have 3 500mcm that would need connected, and feed from what my chart says 1250mcm.
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:36 PM   #2
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My Pocos would demand that the Service be by way of a pad mounted transformer.

At such power levels, O/H is out of the question.

We'd have to run a Schedule 80 riser up a power pole for their Medium Voltage conductors and bring them to a transformer pad -- everything spec'd by the Poco.

Then we'd run our Secondaries into the Service -- which could be inside or immediately outside of the building.

Things must really be different on the East Coast.
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:38 PM   #3
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BTW, do you have your Poco's spec book ?
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:41 PM   #4
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When I first applied for the upgrade(as there is only 150amps there now), he was not going to change transformer, even though it's supplying two other offices, and 4 houses. When we went to 1200, he had to replace the pole and transformer. He said we were not going to get three phase, because of the load is not worthy of it.

He has not concern for the NEC code either. After all, I should have 4 mast but he said I only need three of 500mcm. He undersizes everything. They get away with it too, as most services I upgrade to 200 amp, he still leaves the #4 overhead to the house.

Calling corporate down in West Virginia gets you know where because they don't know anything unless their computer tells them.

As far as the spec book, I have multiple copies, but everything is listed for 400 amp services or less.

Bottom line is they are understaffed and don't care. We had sever storms here on Tuesday and there are still people without power. But we got crews on the way to Texas already. We can pay them a $180 disconnect/reconnect fee, but there is no guarantee they will even show up.

I'm to the point I am just trying to find a connector that will work, that way we can have power before the holidays. This is one job I wish I didn't get now.
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:58 PM   #5
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What the hell? This sounds like some kluged up mess. 1200A single phase service with a single pole mounted tub? Lunacy. Plus, they should have more than 1 drop going to your 3 god damned masts. They should be dropping 3 triplex, one for each mast, and then splice as needed at the tub. I don't think I've ever seen a single phase service that size, and I can't imagine it is good for load diversity on their part either. Just nuts.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:24 PM   #6
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Is this a single or three phase service? My poco only goes up to 600a single and 1600 amps (80% rated) 3 phase 208. POCO would require that the breaker have a 1280amp trip pickup. Anything larger than that would be a primary service with a unit substation.

The only way this would be possible here is using a 500kva PMT transformer. Contractor would install the pilastor and cable guards up the pole for the 25kv primary. Conduits would be installed as per poco's design plans on each side of transformer. Typical here is 3x4" conduits with 3x4c 500kcmil on the secondary.
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:18 AM   #7
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I would use a 4 hole insulated tap and let the power company lug their wire into that.

For instance, an Ilsco PBTS-4-500.

Polaris and Burndy also make these.
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:30 AM   #8
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you can use clear taps rated for UV, Split bolt bugs (u will need 3 per phase) or compression H-Taps.

I would stagger H tap each 500 MCM wire to the service wire....I have the compression tool for that.

They make all CU H taps or Aluminum H-taps that can do both.

You can do the same thing with Split bolts just takes longer.
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:00 PM   #9
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We have looked into the insulated taps, but they only are showing sizes up to 750mcm. Same with the insulted split bolts. Power co will not tell me what size triplex they will use, but they did say they will only do one.

I feel that they should just run three triplexes and make this easier, as they use to do for years, but all of a sudden this year that's no longer allowed.

As far as a pad mounted transformer, it's out of the question because the original part of the building, which is as wide as the property on the street, is historic. So naturally we can't change it or put the pad on someone else property. The rear of the structure which was added on, it would have been a possibility, but POCO wouldn't allow me to put the entrance back there because those were all secondary lines on those poles and they would have to upgrade. Which comes down to more work for them so they didn't approve it.
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bkmoss View Post
When I first applied for the upgrade(as there is only 150amps there now), he was not going to change transformer, even though it's supplying two other offices, and 4 houses. When we went to 1200, he had to replace the pole and transformer. He said we were not going to get three phase, because of the load is not worthy of it.

He has not concern for the NEC code either. After all, I should have 4 mast but he said I only need three of 500mcm. He undersizes everything. They get away with it too, as most services I upgrade to 200 amp, he still leaves the #4 overhead to the house.

Calling corporate down in West Virginia gets you know where because they don't know anything unless their computer tells them.

As far as the spec book, I have multiple copies, but everything is listed for 400 amp services or less.

Bottom line is they are understaffed and don't care. We had sever storms here on Tuesday and there are still people without power. But we got crews on the way to Texas already. We can pay them a $180 disconnect/reconnect fee, but there is no guarantee they will even show up.

I'm to the point I am just trying to find a connector that will work, that way we can have power before the holidays. This is one job I wish I didn't get now.

Who is HE?

Does your poco not have an engineer in the local area you can talk to?

I wouldn't have done any of this without a plan from THEIR engineer.

So this is a 1200 amp single phase service???

There has to be something here you are leaving out!
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:06 PM   #11
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i hope you have all of this in writing.
I routinely see meter banks that size.
the phrase 10 meter banks is going to have us thinking about demand.
First, if the load allows, go ahead with the three 500 risers.
Next you are going to need 1250 kcmil in free air so, you are pretty much screwed there.
As suggested, buy three 5 or 6 hole Polaris taps and be done with it.
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:20 PM   #12
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I would kearney phase A from the left riser to phase A from the center one and then to the right one. I would leave a tail a few feet long on the right side.

Same thing with the other phase and the neutral.

This way, the POCO can splice onto the tail or bug on the loop.

They may very well run a 4/0 triplex and splice it to the tails.

If so, and it burns up, it's not your problem.
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:13 PM   #13
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Ok, the he I was referring to originally is the POCO planing engineer for the area. As far as getting anything in writing, that's also a joke with them.

As far as actual load, there are seven residential apartments, two are single bedroom studios, five are two bedroom with kitchens. 4 have electric heat only. Plus the house panel, panel for basement area A, and the 400amp panel for basement area B which is to be a coin op laundry mat, with electric dryers.

The electrical engineer that spec the load for me came up with needing about 650 amps to service the apartments, and added 500 for basement usage since the owner could not provide us details. This guy even said that thus is the first time that he has heard of the electrical contractor having to make this connection. He reminded me that following the 2008 NEC code, which PA goes by, May riser cables should be 600mcm x the four mast for complete load.
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
I would kearney phase A from the left riser to phase A from the center one and then to the right one. I would leave a tail a few feet long on the right side.

Same thing with the other phase and the neutral.

This way, the POCO can splice onto the tail or bug on the loop.

They may very well run a 4/0 triplex and splice it to the tails.

If so, and it burns up, it's not your problem.
Yeah when they did large OH services here it was that or ilsco blocks.

You were lucky if their drop was the size of one of your parallels
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Old 08-27-2017, 05:15 PM   #15
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I would do what COW suggested. While my company has used 1000 MCM in the past, 750 MCM is about the largest most companies use now. You can get those connectors in 4, 6 and I believe 8 position. They are common for underground and are kind of but ugly when installed overhead. But they are fast and don't require any expensive crimping tools. Your POCO sounds like its FUBAR!
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:28 PM   #16
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If it were at all possible, I would set another service next to the existing for the commercial loads.
Our POCO will let us do that.
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