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Old 06-13-2012, 11:12 PM   #21
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Probably smart people who don't enjoy structures burning down unnecessarily. Improperly using the armor of BX without the strip inside is one of a very few examples that I would tell a customer are genuine "will burn your house down" problems. That's something I hardly ever say, but I feel pretty strongly about this one.
I think it's a somewhat common misconception that the old BX could be used as an EGC. Unbonded BX is probably the most dangerous wiring method in use. It's far worse than K&T. Likewise, I'm not hesitant to let people know how bad it is and that it needs to be entirely replaced.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:14 PM   #22
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I think it's a somewhat common misconception that the old BX could be used as an EGC. Unbonded BX is probably the most dangerous wiring method in use. It's far worse than K&T. Likewise, I'm not hesitant to let people know how bad it is and that it needs to be entirely replaced.
I agree.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:19 PM   #23
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How can you tell, b4t asks? A careful inspection, usually (sometimes removing a box or looking at the panel). Often, just by age.

I have yet to see rubber and cloth insulated BX that was bonded, and I encounter BX all the time. The earliest bonded stuff I have seen is BX with TW insulated wire, probably from the early 60's. Before that it seemed to be unbonded, rubber and cloth BX.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:32 PM   #24
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I think it's a somewhat common misconception that the old BX could be used as an EGC. Unbonded BX is probably the most dangerous wiring method in use. It's far worse than K&T. Likewise, I'm not hesitant to let people know how bad it is and that it needs to be entirely replaced.
My, how dramatic we are today.

But I agree with you on this one.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:33 PM   #25
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My, how dramatic we are today.

But I agree with you on this one.
I actually get dramatic about legitimate stuff.

You, on the other hand, get dramatic about everything, no matter how trivial.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:35 PM   #26
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Wow, a minute to reply, you are on the ball today.

And ALL of my drama is legit bub.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:38 PM   #27
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Owner will consider rewiring if I present a good case on why. He is interested in dividing into separate meters which is a PITA with the existing system. I'd rather plant a sub in each unit and rewire in romex.
Then that is what you should do. I would do 3 replacements in an hour so it's up to you how much you want per device. I think $30 each is fair in old house like that. Have a clause in your contract so if the wiring or the grounding and bonding is all screwed up it won't be surprise and you'll look good for having "discovered the bad wiring".
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:45 PM   #28
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I'd charge a little bit more


....and pick up a roll of heat shrink and a heat gun



...or blow dryer for that professional look




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Old 06-14-2012, 03:41 PM   #29
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You can't do that if the BX doesn't have the bonding strip inside. Doubtful yours does. You're stuck with 2-wire replacements or GFCI's by some means.
MD, anyone, do you have a code reference I can get on that ? Here's the deal about whats going, my client just bought two buildings next to each other, one a mini supermarket, the other a tenemant home which he is dividing into respectable apartments. Here is the glitch, the brother of the former owner has a business in the 1st floor of the tenement building, he is the local town electrician. He is expecting to get some work. Not that I am bidding against him in anyway , he has done all of the upgrades like changing the existing two prong outlets to grounded outlets back in the early 80's, hacked and slashed wiremold about, etc. . I foresee his input to my compliant solutions as being "unessesary". At last resort I will recommend
GFCI receptacles or GFCI breakers which could turn into a PITA if funky repair practices have been done thru the years.
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Last edited by Shockdoc; 06-14-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:56 PM   #30
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is it cu wire?? if not u have a whole nother issue. Trying to find t.r. two prong receptacles rated for aluminum. or them Purple wire nuts at $1 ea. and pigtailing them to cu...
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:55 PM   #31
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MD, anyone, do you have a code reference I can get on that ? Here's the deal about whats going, my client just bought two buildings next to each other, one a mini supermarket, the other a tenemant home which he is dividing into respectable apartments. Here is the glitch, the brother of the former owner has a business in the 1st floor of the tenement building, he is the local town electrician. He is expecting to get some work. Not that I am bidding against him in anyway , he has done all of the upgrades like changing the existing two prong outlets to grounded outlets back in the early 80's, hacked and slashed wiremold about, etc. . I foresee his input to my compliant solutions as being "unessesary". At last resort I will recommend
GFCI receptacles or GFCI breakers which could turn into a PITA if funky repair practices have been done thru the years.
Well, *my* estimate would revert to T&M for this one, given the updated info. Or maybe macmikeman's "More...lots and lots more" than $25 ea.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:46 PM   #32
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A hypothetical theatrical question. Would and AFCI circuit breaker be compliant to protect old clothe BX and still utilize grounding type receptacles ?
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:21 PM   #33
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MD, anyone, do you have a code reference I can get on that ?
Well, first you need to own a code book.

The armor on old BX cable is not listed as a bonding means in the table in article 250.
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