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Old 01-28-2015, 06:27 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rollie73 View Post
How do you plan on keeping gfci protection on the secondary side of the isolation transformer if you did use one?

Since a true isolation xfmr is exactly that......the primary and secondary coils are physically and electrically isolated from each other so then a GFCI receptacle on the primary side would only protect against faults on the primary side. If the fault occurred on the secondary side then you the primary side gfci likely wouldn't work.......unless I'm missing something here.

As far as I can see.....you would have to install the GFCI receptacle on the secondary side of the xfmr and then you're right back to the same issue again.

If the secondary is floating you could in theory get away without a GFCI. Its what they do in wet location ORs.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:36 PM   #22
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If the secondary is floating you could in theory get away without a GFCI. Its what they do in wet location ORs.
Hmmmm interesting. I do vaguely remember talking about something like that waaaaaaay back in my apprenticeship.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:52 PM   #23
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Hmmmm interesting. I do vaguely remember talking about something like that waaaaaaay back in my apprenticeship.
http://static.schneider-electric.us/...0104DB0701.pdf

This may help, though it takes a while to grasp the concept:

http://www.pglifelink.com/pdf/isolat...xplanation.pdf

Started at page 10:

https://stevenengineering.com/tech_s...DFs/45HIPS.pdf
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:19 PM   #24
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It works in concept, but I don't know about real life.
Using two simulair trannies does work !
I have done it
A small loss, but not significant.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:19 PM   #25
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Thanks Meadow......interesting reading and a good refresher. I remember studying IPS now even though its been a long time.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:32 PM   #26
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Thanks Meadow......interesting reading and a good refresher. I remember studying IPS now even though its been a long time.


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Old 01-28-2015, 08:49 PM   #27
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remember we want a filter choke not an isolating tranny
for this application.

I tried a clamp on filter choke and it did nothing.


Quote:
Using two simulair trannies does work !
I have done it
A small loss, but not significant.
What is the worst that can happen if it fails somehow?

Right now I'm thinking, screw it, let it hum and use a non GFCI source.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:03 PM   #28
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IPS's hurt my head.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:04 PM   #29
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An isolation transformer isn't that hard. Go find any run of the mill 480/240 primary 240/120 secondary transformer. Hook the primary and secondary up for 240 and you have an isolation transformer as long as you don't ground the side you want isolated.


Not trying to be a smat ass but how is it that you are an electrician that doesn't have a basic understanding of how transformers work?
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:09 PM   #30
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An isolation transformer isn't that hard. Go find any run of the mill 480/240 primary 240/120 secondary transformer. Hook the primary and secondary up for 240 and you have an isolation transformer as long as you don't ground the side you want isolated.


Not trying to be a smat ass but how is it that you are an electrician that doesn't have a basic understanding of how transformers work?

Are you referring to me?
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:13 PM   #31
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Are you referring to me?
Everyone. That is a basic part of electrical theory.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:32 PM   #32
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An isolation transformer isn't that hard. Go find any run of the mill 480/240 primary 240/120 secondary transformer. Hook the primary and secondary up for 240 and you have an isolation transformer as long as you don't ground the side you want isolated.
For this application we do NOT want a isolation tranny
We want a filter choke !
But just about any tranny will do that to some degree.

I only suggested an isolation tranny cause there well known
and easier to find.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:34 PM   #33
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For this application we do NOT want a isolation tranny
We want a filter choke !
But just about any tranny will do that to some degree.

I only suggested an isolation tranny cause there well known
and easier to find.

I don't know what a filter choke is either. Does that make me a bad 'lectrictian?
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:47 PM   #34
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Everyone. That is a basic part of electrical theory.
While it's a basic part of electrical theory, there are many electricians who install them and don't know how they work.They just know to land "this wire" on "this tap".
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:06 PM   #35
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IPS's hurt my head.
It takes some time, trust me

But eventually you get it piece by piece.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:52 AM   #36
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i don't know what a filter choke is either. Does that make me a bad 'lectrictian?
Attachment 46073


YES!
bad bad boy !

Last edited by dmxtothemax; 05-28-2016 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:51 AM   #37
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220/221, you have tried the ferrite clamp on choke and it did nothing ? your problem isn't with harmonics , or rf, you really have a groud leakage. maybe 2 ma per unit that might explain why it take 3 cabinet to make the gfci trip.

if you want to make your own isolation xfmr the easiest way is the one jhellwig explained.

Last edited by guest; 01-29-2015 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Do not post the microwave transformer info on here please
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Old 01-29-2015, 11:54 AM   #38
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Not trying to be a smat ass but how is it that you are an electrician that doesn't have a basic understanding of how transformers work?

The electrical field is HUGE and I have limited storage capacity. There are electricians who are geniuses at control wiring but can't figure out how to do a little resi remodel without tearing up the place.

My primary focus has always been on the installation and production side because it corresponds directly to how much money I earn. If I my job had taken me more into the troubleshooting end of transformers, I would have learned how the damn things worked.

My basic understanding of transformers is, The electricity flows thru a coil (around in a circle hundreds of times) and there is maybe another coil or some **** next to it and the lectric somehow jumps between the coils. Seriously, that's about it. I never needed to know more.

When I install a transformer, I hook it up according to the instructions/legend and move on. I am way more concerned with the installation than how it works.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:54 PM   #39
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does it hum everywhere or is it just in one particular place, does it hum only when it is pluged into your mixer or if they are alone and powerede they humm ?
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:18 PM   #40
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does it hum everywhere or is it just in one particular place, does it hum only when it is pluged into your mixer or if they are alone and powerede they humm ?


Connected to the mixer or not, the hum/buzz is the same. The buzz part may be the 60 cycle thing. I can't count that fast but it sounds like what I have occasionally felt.

The hum/buzz is the same when connected when plugged into the same circuit as the mixer.

Removing the ground(s) has no effect.

Both sets (mains and subs) are acting the same way when hooked up independently.

My other system (almost the same) has always had almost zero noise.

I still can't help but think the hum/buzz is connected to the GFCI tripping thing.

Last edited by 220/221; 01-29-2015 at 03:24 PM.
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