Which do you trust more? (Grounding vs. GFCI) - Page 4 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:27 PM   #61
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Cool, my book is only a couple years old. I find it more beneficial to learn here on ET.
I regret to say some of those books are dated (look at American Electricians Handbook) or so overly simplified that people walk away with the wrong conclusion.

Any statement that says an EGC or breaker is there to protect an appliance is false. The NEC is not concerned about protecting appliances, only people and property. No more no less.

In all honesty the best resources are the NEC itself and IMO the NEC Handbook. Of course ET and Mike Holt shouldn't be discarded either.
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Old 02-14-2015, 07:13 PM   #62
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And like I said EGC is not life safety so what are we debating now
Of course it is. with a hot wire fault (to the casing) on a tool or appliance and you can become the path to ground.

The GFCI is just extra protection.
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:20 PM   #63
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You maybe felt a shock, but it may have been below 4-6 ma. required to trip a gfi. Did you go and push the test button after to verify a faulty device?
It wasnt just a shock I complete locked up and couldnt get off until a coworker slapped my hand away with a piece of pvc he had.

Yes the device was tested with the test button and failed. It was replaced with a new WR GFCI.

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Old 02-15-2015, 04:30 PM   #64
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It wasnt just a shock I complete locked up and couldnt get off until a coworker slapped my hand away with a piece of pvc he had.

Yes the device was tested with the test button and failed. It was replaced with a new WR GFCI.
That just goes to demonstrate how important it is to regularly test GFCIs. I always test it before I plug into one.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:31 PM   #65
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Im a survivor of non gfci protected slater and leviton receptacles in basements, garages, bathrooms, kitchens and outdoors. Shocks were Gods way of telling me to get my sh!t in order.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:44 PM   #66
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Somebody needs to upgrade their capital equipment.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:14 PM   #67
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I think a solidly grounded system is much safer than a gfci recep since a faulty gfci is more common than a faulty breaker
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:43 PM   #68
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I think a solidly grounded system is much safer than a gfci recep since a faulty gfci is more common than a faulty breaker
Omg ... you guys are choosing not to listen to what I'm saying...good to be back...
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:44 PM   #69
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I think a solidly grounded system is much safer than a gfci recep since a faulty gfci is more common than a faulty breaker

But, if you get a grip on a circuit with a brand new fully functioning breaker, it will kill you dead.

The breaker is to protect the wire.

The GEC is to protect the people.

The GFCI is to protect the people better.




The AFCI is dumb
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:45 PM   #70
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I regret to say some of those books are dated (look at American Electricians Handbook) or so overly simplified that people walk away with the wrong conclusion.

Any statement that says an EGC or breaker is there to protect an appliance is false. The NEC is not concerned about protecting appliances, only people and property. No more no less.

In all honesty the best resources are the NEC itself and IMO the NEC Handbook. Of course ET and Mike Holt shouldn't be discarded either.
Hitting myself in the head with a hammer..
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:47 PM   #71
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Hitting myself in the head with a hammer..
What are you really trying to accomplish?
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:54 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
But, if you get a grip on a circuit with a brand new fully functioning breaker, it will kill you dead.

The breaker is to protect the wire.

The GEC is to protect the people.

The GFCI is to protect the people better.




The AFCI is dumb
absolutely no doubt you are correct. I was simply referring to using a gfci when ground or waterpipe isnt available
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:31 PM   #73
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Omg ... you guys are choosing not to listen to what I'm saying...good to be back...
Probably because everything you've said so far has been wrong.
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:34 PM   #74
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My initial instinct is to not trust the device that employs a PCB, but I do like that GFCIs cut out near or below lethal current levels, even given the most lethal ground path.

I have been doing lots of 277/480 lately, so I have had to rely on the original OCPD that is my brain, and am still alive to post this. Been preventing overcurrent by avoiding that fatal path.
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:29 PM   #75
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I'm in code class again and the electrical engineer that teaches the class just went over that topic again... maybe I'll ask him to do an online class for you guys. When you guys get a chance go read what the Soars book says about grounding...you will find it very interesting and I can almost guarantee the word enhance is no where to be found.
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:09 PM   #76
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.....
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:25 PM   #77
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I'm in code class again and the electrical engineer that teaches the class just went over that topic again... maybe I'll ask him to do an online class for you guys. When you guys get a chance go read what the Soars book says about grounding...you will find it very interesting and I can almost guarantee the word enhance is no where to be found.

So you offer no proof to refute anything we've said other than some unknown engineer can school us. That's convincing.
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:28 PM   #78
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Which do you trust more?

1) An electrical system that relies on solid equipment bonding (grounding)

2) An electrical system that relies on GFCI protection
Sorry I'm late to this thread. I apologize. I would say a combination of both systems would be ideal. Just my opinion.
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:29 PM   #79
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Yes I said read the Soars book. It's in there. And basically what I've already explained you. Not sure what you guys don't .
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Old 02-21-2015, 03:33 PM   #80
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I trust Mtw. He's a well trained Union electrician.
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