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Old 02-21-2015, 02:40 PM   #81
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:41 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1971 View Post
Sorry I'm late to this thread. I apologize. I would say a combination of both systems would be ideal. Just my opinion.
But his question was what do you trust more... and if my life is on the line, based on what I've read, been taught, and experienced first hand I would trust gfci.
FYI when you connect two metal pieces together with a wire your not grounding it's called bonding. We ground to the earth like a main service and transformer to facilitate the opening of a breaker in the event of a short.
And a gfci will work in a ungrounded system. That's what we do for homes with knob and tube.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:17 PM   #83
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Nevermind..
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:40 PM   #84
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But his question was what do you trust more... and if my life is on the line, based on what I've read, been taught, and experienced first hand I would trust gfci.
FYI when you connect two metal pieces together with a wire your not grounding it's called bonding. We ground to the earth like a main service and transformer to facilitate the opening of a breaker in the event of a short.
And a gfci will work in a ungrounded system. That's what we do for homes with knob and tube.
Why would 1000s of amps choose to go down a ground rod when the neutral is only 0.005 ohms on average? Unless your talking about a TT system, where yahhh, you will defiantly need a GFCI to clear that fault.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:47 PM   #85
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.......they keep referring to the bonding jumper as a ground and I'm just pointing out that we ground things to the earth like main services and such.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:55 PM   #86
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.......they keep referring to the bonding jumper as a ground and I'm just pointing out that we ground things to the earth like main services and such.
To open a breaker?
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:57 PM   #87
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To open a breaker?
No... but the whole point of the thread was which do you trust more and if it comes down to life safety I would say a gfci.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:59 PM   #88
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Look at it this way..... is a breaker a life safety device...? I guess you could say yes. But is it possible for someone to still get killed from a breaker...? Yes if you come between the fault and grounding conductor. Is a gfci specifically designed to save people from electrocution..? .. yes, Which is why we install them in areas of high risk.. correct..?
Why are those faces popping up in my post..?
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:07 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by captkirk View Post
No... but the whole point of the thread was which do you trust more and if it comes down to life safety I would say a gfci.
Quote:
FYI when you connect two metal pieces together with a wire your not grounding it's called bonding. We ground to the earth like a main service and transformer to facilitate the opening of a breaker in the event of a short
Think of it this way. If that was the case code would not allow a 2000 ampere service to have a #6 ground rod GEC or we wouldn't have EGCs larger than #6.

The reason is that ground rods will never have a low enough resistance to accommodate thousands of amps at either 120 or 277 volts.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:10 PM   #90
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Well you got me there I was incorrect. What do you want I'm watching my three kids...I was just speaking of a grounded system vs ungrounded..
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:16 PM   #91
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Think of it this way. If that was the case code would not allow a 2000 ampere service to have a #6 ground rod GEC or we wouldn't have EGCs larger than #6.

The reason is that ground rods will never have a low enough resistance to accommodate thousands of amps at either 120 or 277 volts.
I know ground rods have nothing to do with breakers.. I'm not sure why I brought it up...the earth is a very poor conductor.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:17 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by captkirk View Post
I know ground rods have nothing to do with breakers.. I'm not sure why I brought it up...the earth is a very poor conductor.
See post 82
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:20 PM   #93
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I know .. i know....I'm just trying to explain that grounding and bonding are two different things. and doing a poor job at it...

But do you get what I'm saying about life safety..?
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:21 PM   #94
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I know .. i know....I'm just trying to explain that grounding and bonding are two different things. and doing a poor job at it...

But do you get what I'm saying about life safety..?
I think so... There are times where a GFCI will protect you where an EGC will not.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:24 PM   #95
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The grounded conductor is really the neutral and I misrepresent what I'm saying when I'm talking about the grounding conductor... does that help?
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:28 PM   #96
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The grounded conductor is really the neutral and I misrepresent what I'm saying when I'm talking about the grounding conductor... does that help?
Depends on what your are referring to...
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:32 PM   #97
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Wouldn't you say it's very possible to have a difference in potential to ground but not enough to trip a breaker but enough to cause a Hazzard
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:35 PM   #98
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Wouldn't you say it's very possible to have a difference in potential to ground but not enough to trip a breaker but enough to cause a Hazzard
Only is something is wrong like a bootlegged ground or a broken EGC with a fault on it.
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:39 PM   #99
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I dont think a gfi will trip if it doesny have a ground reference
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:51 PM   #100
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I dont think a gfi will trip if it doesny have a ground reference
It will. It just senses the imbalance on the hot and neutral.
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