Does anyone here have a lot of experience with high noise environments? - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2015, 05:44 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
NC Plc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Nationwide
Posts: 3,529
Rewards Points: 7,888
Default Does anyone here have a lot of experience with high noise environments?

I know at least a few of you do, every electrical topic has at least one expert on here.

Anyway, I'm having an electrical noise issue so I am replacing a missing piece of tinned copper shielding sleeve and a drain wire. My question is what's the best way to connect the shielding that is already there to the shielding I am buying? Solder? My assumption is that as long as the connection between the two pieces of shielding is solid enough and the drain wire is properly sized, it will be fine.

My boss isn't 100% sure so I am researching it, I figure asking here while I look around for answers should speed things up.

Last edited by NC Plc; 02-11-2015 at 08:12 PM. Reason: I can't stand double negatives.
NC Plc is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-11-2015, 06:18 PM   #2
Bababoee
 
captkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 9,187
Rewards Points: 2,030
Default

Yes 3 kids under 5
__________________
Full time Bovine Scatologist.
captkirk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to captkirk For This Useful Post:
8V71 (02-12-2015), CADPoint (02-11-2015), chicken steve (02-11-2015), Cow (02-12-2015), eric7379 (02-13-2015), five.five-six (02-11-2015), glen1971 (02-11-2015)
Old 02-11-2015, 06:31 PM   #3
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

wha.....? ~CS~
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-11-2015, 06:48 PM   #4
RIP 1959-2015
 
Black Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Reporting From Fenway Park Home of the Boston Red Sox....
Posts: 10,750
Rewards Points: 180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NC EET View Post
I know at least a few of you do, I doubt there is an electrical topic that no one on here is an expert on.

Anyway, I'm having an electrical noise issue so I am replacing a missing piece of tinned copper shielding sleeve and a drain wire. My question is what's the best way to connect the shielding that is already there to the shielding I am buying? Solder? My assumption is that as long as the connection between the two pieces of shielding is solid enough and the drain wire is properly sized, it will be fine.

My boss isn't 100% sure so I am researching it, I figure asking here while I look around for answers should speed things up.
Rock solid connections are a must.

What are you picking up the electrical noise with?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Black Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 07:24 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
NC Plc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Nationwide
Posts: 3,529
Rewards Points: 7,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
Rock solid connections are a must.

What are you picking up the electrical noise with?
One section consists of 3 wires going to an RTD sensor, the second section consists of 3 wires going to a magnetic pickup sensor.

My idea is to put a small metal piece over the wires and under the shielding/bleed wire and solder the two pieces of shielding together.
NC Plc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 07:37 PM   #6
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,456
Rewards Points: 4,529
Default

Only ground one end of the shield. Don't run the rtd in the same conduit as the switch.

Why is part of the shielding missing?
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 08:01 PM   #7
animal lover /rat bastard
 
wildleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: somewhere in FL
Posts: 13,547
Rewards Points: 1,038
Default

more details ? Is this a new apparatus that is ill equipped for noise rejection in the ckt or something that has been jerry rigged ?
__________________
this message was sent from a dental floss farm using ZappaTalk and a pair of zirconium encrusted tweasers
wildleg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 08:07 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
NC Plc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Nationwide
Posts: 3,529
Rewards Points: 7,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhellwig View Post
Only ground one end of the shield. Don't run the rtd in the same conduit as the switch.

Why is part of the shielding missing?
They're not in conduit, they're wires that come out of a rail that cannot be replaced. All sensors have dedicated shielding and are separate.

The shielding is missing because of age, part of the insulation and then the braided shielding wore off for some reason, I don't know why but it was roughly a 6" section. Then heat caused an issue and a large section of multiple wires had to be replaced, but they were not replaced with shielding just wires. I was not here when the shielding was removed, I am just getting it put back into place. It's been a great learning experience and I ordered some books on EMI, it's an interesting subject. I'm also going to pick up a book about harmonics.

I have to get this fixed as soon as possible because I have a cabinet and VFD to install and this is holding up that project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildleg View Post
more details ? Is this a new apparatus that is ill equipped for noise rejection in the ckt or something that has been jerry rigged ?
It's old wiring that was ignored for a long time, I explained a little more above.

The rail that these wires go into can not be replaced, that's a $20,000 no-no. They are hardwired into this rail.
NC Plc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 08:19 PM   #9
Senior Moment
 
drsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Presque Isle, Maine
Posts: 7,601
Rewards Points: 132
Default

Jhellwig has it spot on, only ground one end (usually the supply end) of the shield.
__________________
Sent by Commodore Vic 20 with 9.6K modem
drsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 08:21 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
NC Plc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Nationwide
Posts: 3,529
Rewards Points: 7,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drsparky View Post
Jhellwig has it spot on, only ground one end (usually the supply end) of the shield.
Yea that will be the end coming out of this rail. The sensors do not ground, they have a rubber stopper in their plugs where the shielding terminates at the end.

Honestly, I had no idea why that rubber was in the plug for the longest time. Now I know.

Last edited by NC Plc; 02-11-2015 at 08:25 PM.
NC Plc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 08:22 PM   #11
animal lover /rat bastard
 
wildleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: somewhere in FL
Posts: 13,547
Rewards Points: 1,038
Default

well, emi on something as simple as an rtd could probably fixed by something as simple as the right noise filter (capacitor).
__________________
this message was sent from a dental floss farm using ZappaTalk and a pair of zirconium encrusted tweasers
wildleg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 11:07 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Ty Wrapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Shawnee KS
Posts: 2,102
Rewards Points: 2,044
Default

Maybe you can find something here...

http://www.electricmotioncompany.com/
Ty Wrapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 03:36 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Jlarson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,192
Rewards Points: 4,074
Default

We use shielded heat shrink to repair damaged sensor cables in certain cases.
__________________
Everything has user serviceable parts inside.
Jlarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 04:04 AM   #14
Data Tech/Apprentice.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Zealand.
Posts: 9,013
Rewards Points: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlarson View Post
We use shielded heat shrink to repair damaged sensor cables in certain cases.
Ive never seen that, is it just a drain or a complete enclosure of foil?
__________________
Currently under suspension for unauthorized heroism.
chewy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2015, 11:09 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Western Kentucky
Posts: 522
Rewards Points: 1,004
Default

In my most considerable experience the shielding needs not to be continuous as long as the drain wire is, and as said before make sure it is only grounded at one end so you don't get a ground loop.

An RTD is generally pretty good at not being susceptible to outside interference, rfi, emi or harmonics, especially if not near a noisy source as you say.

Disconnect the white wires and ohm them to each other, they should read zero or there about as they are connected at the source, the second white is only used for voltage drop compensation on extended lead lengths. Short runs don't need 3 wire RTDs.

If your controller does not accept a two wire RTD then just jumper the terminals where the 2 white go and only connect one white at a time to see if there is a difference.

If you have the typical 100 ohm RTD then each separate white wire will read approx 100 ohms to the red wire depending on the probes temperature. Also check if any of the 3 wires are grounded, verify that your probe is not internally grounded as some are.

What is the exact nature of your problem, how long is the run? personally I have not seen noise on an RTD in the several thousands that I have worked on outside of a bad connection that is..
xpertpc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Corrosion - Extreme Coastal Environments coledar General Electrical Discussion 2 10-09-2014 07:02 PM
Continuity Tester for LOUDER environments... Miller6386 Tools, Equipment and New Products 10 06-18-2014 01:23 AM
Accessing electrical panels in light manufacturing environments henderson14 Commercial Electrical Forum 12 06-24-2013 01:47 PM
Survey for electricians working in hazardous environments 5circles General Electrical Discussion 1 07-28-2011 01:42 AM
Electricians working in hazardous environments 5circles General Electrical Discussion 7 07-05-2011 01:18 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com