Electric tractor build - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion


Like Tree27Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2016, 07:57 PM   #1
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default Electric tractor build

Our expiramental department is having one of their tractors taken out of their budget next year so they are wanting to take an electric motor and drive they had from some past expiraments and turn it into a skid to run tests with.

We have a 125 horse 6 pole motor and a drive. It will be mounted in a skid to run a pto shaft above a tractor set up just like it would be on a tractor. The skid will set outside and be powere by a 3/0 flexible cord to a 200 amp metric outlet on the side of the building. The drive will be on the skid and be able to have the speed varied automatically as their test calles for it.

I will use this as a build thread and keep it updated as it progresses. The pictures will be sparse but will hopefully show what is happening. Here is what it is starting out as:





They are working on cutting the steel for the skid now and I am working on getting the electrical parts I need.

For those of you unfamiliar with tractors I will kinda explain what we are replicating. We build hay balers and mowers at this plant. So when that equipment is being used in the field is is pulled by a tractor that provides the various power inputs that the equipment needs like hydraulic for lifting and moving parts of the equipment or pto to operate the equipment. The equipment is hooked to the tractors draw bar so it can be pulled through the field to do its job. Since we are just testing and developing things we only need the pto to drive the equipment. The skid will stay till while they are running their tests with the various sensors all over the equipment.
drsparky likes this.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-10-2016, 09:03 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
MikeFL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: The Sunshine State
Posts: 5,587
Rewards Points: 64
Default

Sounds like a fun project to work on.

Is this a prototype for possible future product? Just curious how you'd supply power when it's used in the field (no pun intended) or is it a test jig for functional testing completed assemblies?
Jhellwig likes this.
__________________
Michael Gookin, President
GPS Timers

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(833) GPS-TIME
MikeFL is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MikeFL For This Useful Post:
Jhellwig (09-12-2016)
Old 09-10-2016, 09:09 PM   #3
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

No this isn't a future product or anything. It is to run implements for tests.

When we develop a new product or improve a current one they do all sorts of test for durability. They put all sorts of sensors on everything and run it for a long time to simulate field use. We currently use a tractor to provide the power for these tests. This is going to replace the tractor. They will still use a tractor when they are doing these tests in the field but it is kinda wasteful to use one sitting next to a building all day.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 09-10-2016, 10:43 PM   #4
Bilge Rat
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fernley, Nevada (near Reno)
Posts: 6,625
Rewards Points: 2,860
Default

Since PTOs operate at either 540 or 1000 RPM, are you using gear reduction?

It's likely not needed, even at 540 RPM a 6 pole motor can develop pretty good torque, plus not many balers need 125 HP though a swather w/crimper can take some serious HP.

It'll be interesting to see how this finally works.

Be careful of counter-torque at the motor though, 50 HP @ 540 RPM is nearly 500 ft. lbs.
Jhellwig likes this.
micromind is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to micromind For This Useful Post:
Jhellwig (09-12-2016)
Old 09-10-2016, 10:54 PM   #5
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by micromind View Post
Since PTOs operate at either 540 or 1000 RPM, are you using gear reduction?

It's likely not needed, even at 540 RPM a 6 pole motor can develop pretty good torque, plus not many balers need 125 HP though a swather w/crimper can take some serious HP.

It'll be interesting to see how this finally works.

Be careful of counter-torque at the motor though, 50 HP @ 540 RPM is nearly 500 ft. lbs.
Direct drive. There will be a switch to select 1000 or 540 rpm. I will use a couple digital inputs on the drive to set a fixed speed and then one for variable.

The engineer designing the skid says he figure out how much ballast they need to add to one side. They are going to use tractor weights. I had to convince him that it would be a good idea to have a switch detect if it starts to come off the ground.

They have a 200 horse motor and drive but didn't think the building they are powering it from has enough power. It only has 400 amps to it. We make a baler that can take that much power to run.
micromind likes this.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2016, 11:16 PM   #6
Modérateur
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 8,635
Rewards Points: 21,782
Default

For the 6 pole motor when you dail in at 1000 rpm you are ok with interal cooling fan but however when you slow down to about 540 it may not have enough air flowage to keep the motor cooling function properly so I really suggest that you may have to add a small squrell cage blower to assit it to keep from the main motor getting hot.

espcally with full load at 540 rpm.

I am not sure how many hp you will get it out on 540 rpm but for my wild guess without getting overloaded or overheated I am guessing about 25 HP give or take few numbers .,,

I am kinda famuair with the HP / rpm chart so it kinda predencted on the speed with HP so the faster it run the more HP it will crank out until you hit rated speed after above rated speed it will stay flat after that.

that based on useing the VFD as long you dont overdraw the main running current you should be fine.

Oh yeah you will need a outrigger to countertract the toqure of the motor.

I have done that before with 300 HP DC shunt motor.
micromind, Jhellwig and Majewski like this.
__________________
Bleu est beau.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to frenchelectrican For This Useful Post:
Jhellwig (09-11-2016)
Old 09-11-2016, 12:36 AM   #7
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

I mention the cooling thing to the engineer and he said that it is just on the verge of not having enough cooling. He seams to have a very good handle on the limits of the motor.

They are confident they have it figured out how much counter weight they need to keep it on the ground.
frenchelectrican and Majewski like this.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 12:50 AM   #8
Modérateur
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 8,635
Rewards Points: 21,782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhellwig View Post
I mention the cooling thing to the engineer and he said that it is just on the verge of not having enough cooling. He seams to have a very good handle on the limits of the motor.

They are confident they have it figured out how much counter weight they need to keep it on the ground.
that is good to know and as long they know what the limitation of the motor design it should be ok.

the electric PTO I did make with 300 HP DC shunt motor I did use old diesel engine block to counterweight it I think it did weight in about 2700 KG due one unit I made it did not have outriggers but the latter one yes I did have outrigger so I used lighter counterweights.

but when you make a frame make sure you put a isolater springs mounting for your control panel so keep the viberation to the control panel to minuim
micromind, Jhellwig and Majewski like this.
__________________
Bleu est beau.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to frenchelectrican For This Useful Post:
Jhellwig (09-11-2016)
Old 09-11-2016, 01:09 AM   #9
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

I didn't think about the vibration. Thanks. The big baler we make is a mechanical driven plunger style so it will make some serious shock loads if they decide to try doing the endurance test on the main gearbox again. When they ran that test being powered by a tractor it beat the hell out of the tractor.

Ultimately if we don't get it right the first time we have two more drives and motors.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2016, 01:18 AM   #10
Modérateur
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Posts: 8,635
Rewards Points: 21,782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhellwig View Post
I didn't think about the vibration. Thanks. The big baler we make is a mechanical driven plunger style so it will make some serious shock loads if they decide to try doing the endurance test on the main gearbox again. When they ran that test being powered by a tractor it beat the hell out of the tractor.

Ultimately if we don't get it right the first time we have two more drives and motors.
Ahh ., gotcha .,,

that will be good ground shaking event when they do that kind of test .,,

I think it will be best move to make the control panel on seperated cart and keep it off from the PTO frame.

Mine setup was used with isolateing springs the viberation was not too bad but the toqure load that only thing I was little worry due that pto I used that to run a big arse blower for slio so you get the idea when someone dump the silage too fast in the blower hopper it can stall the PTO power unit if not carefull..
micromind and Jhellwig like this.
__________________
Bleu est beau.
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to frenchelectrican For This Useful Post:
Jhellwig (09-11-2016)
Old 09-11-2016, 10:14 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,827
Rewards Points: 1,134
Default

It's seems to me electric motors would work better at normal speed and using gears to reduce them. I have had bad experiences with slowing motors down and putting a large load on them.
Jhellwig likes this.

Last edited by rrolleston; 09-11-2016 at 11:16 AM.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rrolleston For This Useful Post:
Jhellwig (09-12-2016)
Old 09-11-2016, 02:23 PM   #12
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrolleston View Post
It's seems to me electric motors would work better at normal speed and using gears to reduce them. I have had bad experiences with slowing motors down and putting a large load on them.
1000 rpm on a 6 pole motor won't hurt anything. All of our big power needing things are 1000 rpm. The small balers are 540 rpm and don't take much power to run. The small mowers even have a 1000rpm option but don't hardly get tested all together.

Gear boxes are inefficient. If we need a reduction a cog belt is a much better option. We might have to use that if we ever use the 200hp motor as it is only 4 pole.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2016, 06:00 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
JRaef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 5,137
Rewards Points: 2,154
Default

I helped this guy build his "electric tractor" years ago when I worked for Motortronics. Not the same scale as what you are doing, but it was fun.

http://www.simpletractors.com/do_it/simply_shocking.htm

I'm helping another guy "electrify" his 1956 Chevy pickup with a 75HP motor and VFD. When he's done, I told him I want his help so I can do something similar, probably with a 1935 Dodge rat-rod pickup body i found. The drive and motor part is easy for me, it's the mounting and coupling issues that will be challenging. He's come up with a cool way to store the batteries under the truck bed, which is raised up, but you can't easily tell from the outside. He's test run it and says that motor and VFD burn the rubber off of the tires if he lets it. that fits my experience with replacing engines with motors and VFDs; the 'instant" nature of torque development with an electric power train changes the way we need to think about "HP" requirements in vehicles.
micromind, Jhellwig and MikeFL like this.
__________________
"If you don't know where you're going, then any direction will do." -- Lewis Carroll
JRaef is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JRaef For This Useful Post:
frenchelectrican (09-13-2016), Jhellwig (09-12-2016), MikeFL (09-13-2016)
Old 09-13-2016, 12:08 AM   #14
Conservitum Americum
 
LARMGUY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 8,121
Rewards Points: 692
Default

Big green is taking your tractor away?
Jhellwig likes this.
__________________
Cowboy words of wisdom.
There are three types of men, those that learn by readin, those that learn by watchin, and those that have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

,
LARMGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LARMGUY For This Useful Post:
Jhellwig (09-13-2016)
Old 09-27-2016, 11:11 PM   #15
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LARMGUY View Post
Big green is taking your tractor away?
They are taking one out of their pool at this plant. Dumb thing is they have 3 100+hp expiramental tractors just sitting around free of cost.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2016, 11:18 PM   #16
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

I am waiting on a ton of parts but I hooked the motor and drive up and wired in a Plc to test the operation of it. The instructions for yaskawa drives are about as vague as Allen Bradley's so I had some trial and error to get it to do what I want. There are some things about this drive that don't make a bit of sense to me but I figured out the work around for most of it. Still can't get it to jog in both directions without another digital input though. There is no calibration on the analog outputs and they were off by .2 mA so I had to trim them with the bias and gain in a trial and error manor.


And yes that mess of wires is necessary and not even as many as will be in the box when it is done.
micromind and Majewski like this.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 12:03 AM   #17
Cow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eastern Oregon
Posts: 2,944
Rewards Points: 4,724
Default

That does seem like a lot of wiring just to make a motor run that's replacing a tractor. What kind of things are you guys monitoring or telling the VFD to do beyond just "start".
micromind likes this.
Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 12:59 AM   #18
Big nosed attic troll
 
Majewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: In a van down by the river!
Posts: 7,544
Rewards Points: 2,774
Default

Is that the fluke 173 on the right?
__________________
I've been alive as long as I can remember.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Majewski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 03:00 PM   #19
Sparks fly from my finger
 
Jhellwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ottumwa, Ia
Posts: 2,424
Rewards Points: 4,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cow View Post
That does seem like a lot of wiring just to make a motor run that's replacing a tractor. What kind of things are you guys monitoring or telling the VFD to do beyond just "start".
Digital ins: start, stop, not, fixed speed 1, fixed speed 2, analog input 2 enable, drive reset, and fwd/rev. Digital out: run, at speed, fault. Analog in:. Speed rec from a pot, speed rec from 4-20mA. Analog out: horsepower, rpm. There will be two panel meters, an ac unit, transformer, terminals and relays for external monitor it and control. The plc isn't going in it. It is just to test the operation without having a pile of stitches hanging there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majewski View Post
Is that the fluke 173 on the right?
179. The other is an 87v.
Majewski likes this.
__________________
Murphy's law is a pain in my butt.
Jhellwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2016, 03:05 PM   #20
Big nosed attic troll
 
Majewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: In a van down by the river!
Posts: 7,544
Rewards Points: 2,774
Default

179, that's what I meant! I'm using same one as my daily.
__________________
I've been alive as long as I can remember.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Majewski is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advice for electric vs hvac business or both ZBat910 Business, Marketing, and Sales 33 10-14-2018 01:25 PM
Electric Company Service Drop Upgrade MustangRider6688 Services and Service Equipment 12 07-11-2016 06:03 PM
Electric train used a energy storage Southeast Power General Electrical Discussion 27 05-24-2016 07:55 AM
Electric heat for log home Grogan14 Residential Electrical Forum 7 03-13-2016 08:15 PM
Lunera Recalls LED Lamps Due to Fire, Burn and Electric Shock Hazards guest Recalls, Safety Notices and References 0 01-27-2016 09:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com