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Old 11-05-2016, 06:47 AM   #1
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Default Equipment grounding conductor

I installed a service where the poco wanted a disconnect at the pole about 130 ft from the house. I installed a triplex for direct burial. I learned that since 2008 the code dont allow to use a 3 wire feeder so I dropped a #4 THHN copper in the trench with the other conductors. Now the inspector tells me that it should be with insulation suitable for direct burial.
How"s such when nobody asks that we use anything else but a regular THHN for grounding rods?.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:16 AM   #2
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Quote:
300.6 Protection Against Corrosion and Deterioration.
Raceways, cable trays, cablebus, auxiliary gutters, cable
armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings,
fittings, supports, and support hardware shall be of materials
suitable for the environment in which they are to be
installed.
and...

Quote:
(A)(3) In Concrete or in Direct Contact with the Earth.
Ferrous metal raceways, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing,
cabinets, elbows, couplings, nipples, fittings, supports,
and support hardware shall be permitted to be installed in
concrete or in direct contact with the earth, or in areas
subject to severe corrosive influences where made of material
approved for the condition, or where provided with
corrosion protection approved for the condition.
I know it doesn't say "conductor insulation", but I think this is what the inspector is getting at.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:28 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by dinlugoj View Post
I installed a service where the poco wanted a disconnect at the pole about 130 ft from the house. I installed a triplex for direct burial. I learned that since 2008 the code dont allow to use a 3 wire feeder so I dropped a #4 THHN copper in the trench with the other conductors. Now the inspector tells me that it should be with insulation suitable for direct burial.
How"s such when nobody asks that we use anything else but a regular THHN for grounding rods?.
A disco doesn't mean it has to be 4 wire. If it's an overcurrent device, then it becomes a feeder in need of a separate ground and neutral. I have never seen thhn run to a rod on a house. I use bare copper.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:38 AM   #4
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A disco doesn't mean it has to be 4 wire. If it's an overcurrent device, then it becomes a feeder in need of a separate ground and neutral. I have never seen thhn run to a rod on a house. I use bare copper.
I was thinking bare copper would have been fine, but I wonder if the inspector thinks the soil is corrosive.
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:04 AM   #5
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I have never seen thhn run to a rod on a house.
Using bare copper is like putting up a sign saying "Please steal this!".

We always use THHN.



Equipment grounding conductor-img_0337.jpg
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:12 AM   #6
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A disco doesn't mean it has to be 4 wire. If it's an overcurrent device, then it becomes a feeder in need of a separate ground and neutral. I have never seen thhn run to a rod on a house. I use bare copper.
The POCO asked for a disconnect after the meter at the pole location. I put a meter socket and a feed thru panel (one unit)The panel has a 200A main breaker.Is this my overcorrect protection or the one in the panel in the basement.? I normally dont do this kind of arrangement as i run 3 conductors from meter to basement
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:31 AM   #7
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So if its ok to use it to the grounding rod why wouldnt be ok as equipment grounding conductor? The inspector cannot make a decision and asked me to show him where it says I can use thhn. I offered to remove insulation but :
There is no article that says the bare copper COULD be used, Article250.120 (B) only says that bare aluminum or copper clad aluminum cannot be used within contact with the earth.

Last edited by Peter Goldwing; 11-05-2016 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by dinlugoj View Post
The POCO asked for a disconnect after the meter at the pole location. I put a meter socket and a feed thru panel (one unit)The panel has a 200A main breaker.Is this my overcorrect protection or the one in the panel in the basement.? I normally dont do this kind of arrangement as i run 3 conductors from meter to basement
They both are over-current protection, one will protect the feeder and the house the other the house and if you have a fault that trips the house OCP both will most likely trip
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:41 AM   #9
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There is no article that says the bare copper COULD be used,
Your inspector needs to understand that the NEC is a permissive code.

The burden of proof is on him to tell YOU where it says YOU CAN'T use bare copper. I can tell you that it doesn't, unless there is a corrosive influence, and I wouldn't let him in on that if I were you.
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:49 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by dinlugoj View Post
the inspector cannot make a decision and asked me to show him where it says i can use thhn.
250.62 nec 2011
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Old 11-05-2016, 12:21 PM   #11
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I have been thru this with an idiotic inspector before when I ran Thhn/thwn . He was insisting that the insulation on the wire wasn't listed for direct burial and the wire should be bare. I told him that since the wire wasn't listed it must mean that it will degrade the insulation away promptly and so therefore we should review the matter again in fifty years, and he left and that was that.........
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:23 PM   #12
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Using bare copper is like putting up a sign saying "Please steal this!".

We always use THHN.



Attachment 94522
I pound my rods a little deeper than that.
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:29 PM   #13
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I pound my rods a little deeper than that.
I got those in by hand using brute strength and sex appeal. I had to get the Hilti to finish them off.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:08 PM   #14
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Which one is considered the service disconnect?

Is there a main bonding jumper in the meter main? Is the neutral bonded to the can in the meter?

Is the #4 really an equipment ground or is it the grounding electrode conductor?

This is a unique install. The only time I have had to fuse the conductors away from the building like this, it was considered the service disconnect. And all the grounding electrodes had to be brought outside.

Inside was not the service, and the neutral was not bonded again inside.

It would be different if the utility only wanted a disconnect by the meter, not a fused disconnect. I am guessing they are considering the pole as the service.

I wunder what the guys do for farms with a central pole as a service. Bring all the grounding electrodes to the pole? Is the pole considered a structure with no grounding electrodes present. So you just drive two ground rods?
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Old 11-05-2016, 08:26 PM   #15
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You still run ground rods at each building. No bond at the other panels, only the pole. The ground wire from the house to the pole is sized off the OCP device at the pole, just like any other feeder.
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Old 11-05-2016, 09:38 PM   #16
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You still run ground rods at each building. No bond at the other panels, only the pole. The ground wire from the house to the pole is sized off the OCP device at the pole, just like any other feeder.

Thanks,

So no need to bring the UFER ground or any others out to the pole?

The only time I had anything like this it was a service rated transfer switch with generator 300' from the building. All grounding electrodes went out to the transfer switch and generator.
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:39 AM   #17
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You should contact to relevant contractor who can resolve this.
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Old 11-08-2016, 10:47 AM   #18
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You still run ground rods at each building. No bond at the other panels, only the pole. The ground wire from the house to the pole is sized off the OCP device at the pole, just like any other feeder.
The question was if I could use THHN as a grounding equipment conductor ( I did use rods on both ends)
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Old 11-08-2016, 10:49 AM   #19
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you should contact to relevant contractor who can resolve this.
i am an electrical contractor
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