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Old 10-06-2016, 07:45 PM   #21
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That's the value of the union apprenticeship. Apprentices and employers both know that the apprentice will be rotated in a year or 2 to get a more well rounded OTJ experience and the apprentice doesn't have to negotiate his wage. He will continue to garner raises so long as he works and does well in school.

Many apprentices are called back to previous employers as foremen.
FWIW, it's not like that in all locals. My local doesn't do that, I remember having apprentices with us for 4 years and longer. Some guys did their entire apprenticeship with a company and stayed with them for a long time as a journeyman.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:13 PM   #22
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That's the value of the union apprenticeship. Apprentices and employers both know that the apprentice will be rotated in a year or 2 to get a more well rounded OTJ experience and the apprentice doesn't have to negotiate his wage. He will continue to garner raises so long as he works and does well in school.

Many apprentices are called back to previous employers as foremen.
That's fantastic for the employee.

Most employers HATE that.

It's forbidden to admit, but employers only want their troops to be educated so far.

The LAST thing they want is troopers that are 'over qualified.'

For they just don't have slots that need that level of talent.

Worse, the fellows end up starting a whole new firm - that ends up competing in their market space.

This last aspect obsesses every seasoned employer.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:21 PM   #23
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Biggest problem with this is after they learn most they look at the greener grass on the other side of the fence. They get three years into it and are not at full rate because you know they are not ready. But they think they know it all and go somewhere else and BS their way in.
Seen it happen many times, and most times you don't even know till they give two weeks’ notice. It's funny in a way because they say they already committed to the new job and don't want to back out even after you make a counter offer. They somehow forget the commitment they made to you so you would train them.

I agree with you, only I feel that the scenario as you describe it accounts for a minor percentage, and that the majority of employees leaving under those circumstances are probably leaving for reasons more than their own ego and could probably be retained otherwise.

Before I took on my apprentice, I was looking for quite some time for someone at a journeyman level. The lesson I took away is that all the good guys I knew, or the ones that I met that I was impressed with, always had a gig already. Whether they were in tight with an employer or they were busy running their own business, they all had something going on. I have no issue paying someone what they are worth but because these guys were go getters they were typically well compensated and not interested in leaving.

Point I'm trying to make, the employer has no leverage to retain an employee if he is being paid at $17/hr but produces at the $30/hr level.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:24 PM   #24
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Most employers HATE that.

It's forbidden to admit, but employers only want their troops to be educated so far....
What? What on earth employer is looking at their highly skilled employees and going "Damn, I wish my guys weren't so capable of completing jobs I give them!"

You can farm out menial labor a hell of a lot easier than you can farm out complex jobs.

The only downside to skilled guys is you need to pay them properly to retain them, but shame on any employer who's too short-sighted to see their value.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:11 PM   #25
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What? What on earth employer is looking at their highly skilled employees and going "Damn, I wish my guys weren't so capable of completing jobs I give them!"

You can farm out menial labor a hell of a lot easier than you can farm out complex jobs.

The only downside to skilled guys is you need to pay them properly to retain them, but shame on any employer who's too short-sighted to see their value.
pay no attention to telsa. he/she likes to post a bunch of gibberish only he/she believes.
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:28 PM   #26
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I don't think you will find "qualified" employees. Since the recession was brutal to the trades you have guys actively looking to get out of the trade and into a more secure job and you have the guys who are going to stick it out but they are not going to rock the boat by going to a new employer.

I guess the answer is to find the most qualified guy and train them.
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:36 PM   #27
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Well you are in for another round of pipe runner answering you ads.
All the big houses just let 25, 50 to 100's of people go per company.
Copper, W.B. Moore, Watson, Starr, Dean, others, and not just electricians

I guess I'm working for a zip recruiter now, although I'm not sure of the
exact definition of that term.

Call, Premier Electrical Staffing, tell them what you want, it's all they do.
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:35 AM   #28
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It's not which pond you fish in.

It's what you know to look for.

You want INTROVERTS.

They comprise about 25% of the general population.

Extroverts are pretty easy to spot.

You don't want them.

BAD ODDS.

If you want a pipe bending maniac, you want someone who is dyslexic.

But, that's all that they're good for.

%%%%%

You want introverts as they are drastically less prone to 'get gabby' with retail customers. Talk KILLS retail proficiency.

&&&&&

You don't want the obese. Duh.

Though it's often the case that an obese foreman is an outstanding hire. Now you're hiring a seasoned brain, perhaps. Must test.

$$$

You also want to take a look at their personal tools.

They are very revealing -- unless they have recently been stolen from a real electrician.

&&&

Ultra neat pick-up truck ==> never hire.

You're looking at a fellow that's far more concerned about his truck and himself than his work.

His truck is his fetish.

EVERY great electrician I've ever known puts more attention to his builds than his truck.

But, don't take this too far. A slob is a slob.

#####

Never hire anyone without probation.

Good grief the world is filled with applicant-liars.

One sure fire way to eliminate the chaff:

Real world tests: EMT bending, ... yes actual EMT... wiring a 'dummy' contactor with a start and stop,... and so forth.

You'll be constantly amazed at the fellows that can't demonstrate mastery of even the most basic tasks.

Yes, you're going to have to discover talent, yourself. Their is no magic 'gate' out there for you.

Isn't that tough !
That's quite a bit of hokum. Never hiring without a probation period however is the most excellent (and almost the only worthwhile) advice given on this subject.

My druthers are to use a temp for hire agency. You can trade em in ad infinitum till you get to the good ones.

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Old 10-07-2016, 07:50 AM   #29
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FWIW, it's not like that in all locals. My local doesn't do that, I remember having apprentices with us for 4 years and longer. Some guys did their entire apprenticeship with a company and stayed with them for a long time as a journeyman.
We're supposed to have a rotation every year but that doesn't always happen either.

In my opinion the best apprentices are the ones that employers want to keep, but are the same ones that demand a rotation to get more experience.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:16 AM   #30
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That's quite a bit of hokum. Never hiring without a probation period however is the most excellent (and almost the only worthwhile) advice given on this subject.

My druthers are to use a temp for hire agency. You can trade em in ad infinitum till you get to the good ones.

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The labor source I use has been pretty reliable. They have been here since the late 1800s.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:28 AM   #31
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Sometimes it's you. How you interview, judge em,
go off your gut AND do you attract the right person(s)?
I know once I look for people better than me I gotta offer more than I want.
But I also have some years under my belt hiring/firing and managing.
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Old 10-07-2016, 02:10 PM   #32
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The labor source I use has been pretty reliable. They have been here since the late 1800s.
That's a good long record. There's prolly not many companies specially temp agencies that have even been around for even 50 years.

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I know once I look for people better than me I gotta offer more than I want.

That's freaking awesome, next time I go in to ask for a raise... Im going to quote you. I hope the boss doesn't get offended
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:26 PM   #33
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Do it, you're worth it! Lol
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