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-   -   Fire in the attic and breakers didn't trip. (https://www.electriciantalk.com/f2/fire-attic-breakers-didnt-trip-157498/)

sbrn33 05-11-2016 03:07 PM

I am interested to see what the rep says.....

Bad Electrician 05-11-2016 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smileyboy (Post 2787865)
Just makes me incredibly worried


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My firm test circuit breakers if you can send me the circuit breaker I will test the circuit breaker and can send you a letter starting if the circuit breaker meets the manufactures Time Current Curve (TCC)

daveEM 05-11-2016 04:36 PM

I think all residential fires are electrical. Well the odd time a guy puts out his smoke in the flower pot. Or burns the siding off his house with his bbq.

Insurance company on a witch hunt?

Edit: I see you are from the US. I suppose someone is going to get sued and the homeowner will never have to work again. Stress and all. 10, 20 mil settlement.

Good place America. They should remove the bottom feeding lawyers tho.

Smileyboy 05-11-2016 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveEM (Post 2790266)
I think all residential fires are electrical. Well the odd time a guy puts out his smoke in the flower pot. Or burns the siding off his house with his bbq.

Insurance company on a witch hunt?

Edit: I see you are from the US. I suppose someone is going to get sued and the homeowner will never have to work again. Stress and all. 10, 20 mil settlement.

Good place America. They should remove the bottom feeding lawyers tho.



I sure hope not.
I was told insurance getting a fire investigator was standard procedure.

Smileyboy 05-11-2016 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Electrician (Post 2790258)
My firm test circuit breakers if you can send me the circuit breaker I will test the circuit breaker and can send you a letter starting if the circuit breaker meets the manufactures Time Current Curve (TCC)



I'm not sure that I'm "allowed" to get inside the panel.

Bad Electrician 05-11-2016 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smileyboy (Post 2790322)
I'm not sure that I'm "allowed" to get inside the panel.

The rep takes the CB and it disappears into the bowels of his firm,

If you can at a later date contact me, I'll test it simple.

Did you do any branch circuit wiring in the house?

Smileyboy 05-11-2016 05:29 PM

0 branch circuit wiring. I'll contact you.


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khfiei 05-11-2016 08:08 PM

SOP for FDNY is to turn off all circuit breakers when they enter a fire building; most NYC services and disconnects are inside building, no outside service disconnects.

Also, BX is a trade name used for type AC cable and does have the bonding strip in it so the armor can be used as a ground. Some very old BX (like type mentioned in my previous post) did not have the bonding strip in it. The bonding strip provides continuity to the armor and reduces the inductance of the wound armor so shorts like the one noted will trip the fuse/breaker.

Smileyboy 07-21-2016 07:37 AM

Thanks for all the help guys. This thing is finally over, I'm not at fault. I can now breath.
However the homeowner wants me to do all their electrical! Now a new fight begins with the insurance company and getting them to pay.

I was told by the restoration company they're getting over $100k. I gave my measly bid of $5kish to the adjuster and he scoffed and said he thought it wouldn't be more than $2k [emoji50][emoji848]. What?! Any tips on dealing with the insurance side of things? How do you write a bid/invoice to get paid?


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99cents 07-21-2016 08:02 AM

In my limited experience with insurance companies, your story sounds about right. Insurance companies don't like permits and inspections, they like repair jobs. If the structure was built in the 1940's, they want it fixed so it's compliant with the 1940 code. I did restoration work on an old shack that had smoke damage from a kitchen fire. They stripped the interior down to bare wood for inspection and I wasn't even allowed to add a smoke detector.

Smileyboy 07-21-2016 08:24 AM

I pulled a permit. They can't get around that. [emoji4]


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sbrn33 07-21-2016 08:32 AM

Just stick to your guns with the with your quote. But make sure you let the owner know you are billing him and not the insurance company. It will be way easier to go after an owner than an insurance agent.

oldblue 07-21-2016 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99cents (Post 3032922)
In my limited experience with insurance companies, your story sounds about right. Insurance companies don't like permits and inspections, they like repair jobs. If the structure was built in the 1940's, they want it fixed so it's compliant with the 1940 code. I did restoration work on an old shack that had smoke damage from a kitchen fire. They stripped the interior down to bare wood for inspection and I wasn't even allowed to add a smoke detector.

I'm sure they'd still sue you for not pulling a permit and not bringing the job up to proper standards, if something happens again.

HackWork 07-21-2016 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbrn33 (Post 3032978)
Just stick to your guns with the with your quote. But make sure you let the owner know you are billing him and not the insurance company. It will be way easier to go after an owner than an insurance agent.

Yup, and make it clear that your payment is due on completion of the work, not 5 months later when the insurance company finally sends the check.

99cents 07-21-2016 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldblue (Post 3033002)
I'm sure they'd still sue you for not pulling a permit and not bringing the job up to proper standards, if something happens again.

I checked with the AHJ and repair jobs don't need a permit. They didn't like it and I didn't like it. I'm not getting involved in that kind of garbage again.

sbrn33 07-21-2016 09:30 AM

Around here it would need a permit just to get power turned back on.

Smileyboy 07-21-2016 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbrn33 (Post 3033098)
Around here it would need a permit just to get power turned back on.



Yep here too.


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99cents 07-21-2016 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbrn33 (Post 3033098)
Around here it would need a permit just to get power turned back on.

Come to think of it, they allowed me a permit only to restore power. It was during my early days of being in business. Today, I would have walked away. Really sketchy and I would be extremely reluctant to do any more insurance work.

khfiei 07-21-2016 10:49 AM

Around here, we work for and get paid by the restoration company. They, like any general contractor will squeeze you for any penny they can and tell you to restore to the previous condition, even though its not up to current code. If the restoration, repair, whatever, is a gut, we're required to do all the wiring to current code (they just don't want to hear that because it effects their profit).

220/221 07-21-2016 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smileyboy (Post 2787754)
. I'm just curious as to why the breaker didn't trip.. .

Well, a toaster doesn't trip a breaker :thumbsup:

It doesn't take 20+ amps to get something red hot.


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