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Old 10-19-2018, 08:47 PM   #1
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Question Fuel Dispensing - Minor Repair Garage - Classified Areas?

Hello All -

I have a customer with a gas dispensing / repair station. Pretty classic setup.

Picture below. Proposed feeder path is blue line.

They have an illuminated sign to the far left front side of the property. It is currently fed underground from the right side of the office, passing somewhere by the fuel pumps and then to the sign. Switched from the office as I recall. Conduit has e&y fitting and etc for classified location where it enters the ground to the right of the office.

The underground feed is compromised in some way. The sign does not light up, loses power somewhere. Re-pulling conductors in existing conduit seems like a lost cause based on my assessment last winter.

As an alternative approach to solving the problem I would like to re-feed the sign from the left side of the building. This will minimize the parking area that is disturbed and be the maximum distance from the fuel dispensing area.

I have very little experience in working in gas / repair stations and how to determine what must be treated as a classified area. In an ideal scenario this path would not be required to be handled as a classified area and I could run PVC conduit to the base of the sign and re-feed the sign as I would normally. Installing a timer / switch on the left side of the garage bay.

Can anyone offer me any guidance? I am looking over article 511 and 514.

Thanks!

Jim
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:02 PM   #2
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The switch is in the office and the office is not (required to be) separated from the service area. Sounds like you're in the service area. Won't that in and of itself require the elevated level of safety?

Is there power on the outside of the building which you could tap right there at the end of your blue line and put a control there too so the entire circuit is outside the service area?
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
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The switch is in the office and the office is not (required to be) separated from the service area. Sounds like you're in the service area. Won't that in and of itself require the elevated level of safety?

Is there power on the outside of the building which you could tap right there at the end of your blue line and put a control there too so the entire circuit is outside the service area?
Based on this snip from a write-up by Mike Holt, I think that area *might* be in the clear?

Interesting question regarding the power outside the building. There is a GFCI receptacle on the inside of the wall in the service area. I could probably nipple out to the opposite side of the block wall.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:08 PM   #4
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Just a thought. If the conduit is wet the wire may be stuck during the winter. If the sign is not original then theres probably a buried jbox near the sign.

Any chance you know someone with a underground tracer.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:38 PM   #5
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Watch out for that"minor or major definition. If it is a minor repair area there is not a problem. Outside you need to be 20' from the dispensers to be in the clear. Art 514.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:52 PM   #6
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Where's the panel? I think signs have to be on their own circuit, I know they have to have a disconnect switch at the sign.
There's probably a buried LB at the sign, if you're lucky they gave you a hand hole. Does that sign have a data link too?
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Old 10-20-2018, 06:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Just a thought. If the conduit is wet the wire may be stuck during the winter. If the sign is not original then theres probably a buried jbox near the sign.

Any chance you know someone with a underground tracer.
Good point regarding the stuck wire. I think my customer is wary of spending any more time on the existing conduit though.

I would bet that the sign is original, but I suppose it might not be
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Old 10-20-2018, 06:48 AM   #8
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Where's the panel? I think signs have to be on their own circuit, I know they have to have a disconnect switch at the sign.
There's probably a buried LB at the sign, if you're lucky they gave you a hand hole. Does that sign have a data link too?
I saw no hand hole. I do not see a data link of any kind either.

Good point about the dedicated circuit and the disconnect at the sign. I will have to look into that.
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Old 10-20-2018, 03:55 PM   #9
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I saw no hand hole. I do not see a data link of any kind either.

Good point about the dedicated circuit and the disconnect at the sign. I will have to look into that.
Isn't that an LED reader board under the main face?
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Old 10-23-2018, 03:28 AM   #10
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Really gas under 3 bucks a gallon !!!! Really !!!!
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:12 AM   #11
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I paid $2.69 earlier this week.
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:15 AM   #12
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$2.54 9/10 here yesterday afternoon for Exxon
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Old 10-23-2018, 08:48 AM   #13
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Meanwhile we're paying $1.60 a LITRE

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Old 10-23-2018, 02:50 PM   #14
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3:65 a gallon is cheap in cali
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