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Old 12-21-2016, 02:22 AM   #1
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Default Fuel stop solenoid WOODWARD

Hi again!

Today i have something that really confused me, whcih is solenoid fuel stop. It pulls and holds, but the thing is it gets hot. I dont know if this is normal, but the wiring was newly made according to this diagram. Is it really supposed to get hot ( 1 hour hold but still holdable with my hand)





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Old 12-21-2016, 03:55 AM   #2
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It's idiot easy to check out the circuit.

1) Identify '30' and '87' -- these will be marked on the under belly of the relay, which you must remove.

2) Noting the corresponding female connections, jack in a DC ammeter.

Don't turn anything on... don't attempt to start the motor.

Just right there you've got the amount of amps flowing into the solenoid -- which will pull up the second you jack a DC ammeter across 30 & 87.

3) Remove your ammeter and restore the relay.
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Old 12-21-2016, 04:04 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by telsa View Post
It's idiot easy to check out the circuit.

1) Identify '30' and '87' -- these will be marked on the under belly of the relay, which you must remove.

2) Noting the corresponding female connections, jack in a DC ammeter.

Don't turn anything on... don't attempt to start the motor.

Just right there you've got the amount of amps flowing into the solenoid -- which will pull up the second you jack a DC ammeter across 30 & 87.

3) Remove your ammeter and restore the relay.
But the thing is solenoid gets hot when it holds, is that normal? Just as hot as your smartphone while playing some games.

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Old 12-21-2016, 03:41 PM   #4
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But the thing is solenoid gets hot when it holds, is that normal? Just as hot as your smartphone while playing some games.

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Yes, that is normal. The DC coil has to use resistance to limit the current and that generates heat.


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Old 12-21-2016, 05:18 PM   #5
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Yes, that is normal. The DC coil has to use resistance to limit the current and that generates heat.
Wouldn't a solenoid be a primarily inductive load?
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:33 PM   #6
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Wouldn't a solenoid be a primarily inductive load?
And a pure inductor offers no impedance to DC.
An AC solenoid can use inductance to limit current.

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Old 12-21-2016, 07:32 PM   #7
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And a pure inductor offers no impedance to DC.
An AC solenoid can use inductance to limit current.

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Do you think its bad if i change the relay with OMRON timer H3CR (0.2s)?

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Old 12-21-2016, 08:38 PM   #8
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Do you think its bad if i change the relay with OMRON timer H3CR (0.2s)?

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Old 12-22-2016, 07:26 PM   #9
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Solenoids generally run hot. Especially if they are energized for extended periods.
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Old 12-22-2016, 07:30 PM   #10
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Solenoids generally run hot. Especially if they are energized for extended periods.
Thank you

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Old 12-22-2016, 08:41 PM   #11
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The DC amps will tell you the Watts. ( W = E x I = 12V x ?I = > ? Watts)

An excessive value will indicate a short to ground within the solenoid winding.

DC Solenoids are RL circuits.

DC circuits actually do have impedance... it's just that it decays with time... and (usually) very little time, at that. This means that DC impedance decays to pure resistance within milliseconds -- or a few seconds. ( larger systems -- ie big DC motors )

So, the system starts out with DC impedance -- and then promptly fades to pure resistance. Hence the current is only choked back by resistance. ( Think milliseconds)

Last edited by telsa; 12-22-2016 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 12-23-2016, 01:06 AM   #12
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DC circuits actually do have impedance... it's just that it decays with time... and (usually) very little time, at that. This means that DC impedance decays to pure resistance within milliseconds -- or a few seconds. ( larger systems -- ie big DC motors )

So, the system starts out with DC impedance -- and then promptly fades to pure resistance. Hence the current is only choked back by resistance. ( Think milliseconds)
Another way of looking at it is that what is applied to the solenoid is not a DC voltage, it is a unipolar voltage pulse.
It goes from zero to nominal voltage at some time T, and the current moves rapidly toward a steady state value.
This step voltage can be expressed as a summation of an infinite number of sine waves of differing frequency, and it is those that interact with the inductance of the coil, not the "constant" DC.
Real world electricians take the simple stepped DC voltage approach and some engineers and physicists take the Fourier transform approach.


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Old 12-24-2016, 07:02 PM   #13
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its normal..heck some of the environments our solenoids are in have ambient temps well over 100 deg f....

some solenoids may be too hot to touch..doesn't mean that there is an issue w/ it.

While energized, get a current measurement, and see if it adds up to what the nameplate says.
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Old 12-25-2016, 10:01 AM   #14
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Thanks all, i just want to know if its normal to get hot, i just dont wanna screw the new solenoid.

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Old 12-25-2016, 01:34 PM   #15
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My question would be, how hot is hot?
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Old 12-25-2016, 03:21 PM   #16
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If it is latching why would it get hot?
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Old 12-25-2016, 04:45 PM   #17
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If it is latching why would it get hot?
"It pulls and holds...." in the OP was not a reference to a latching solenoid.
It is energized the full time the engine is running.

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Old 12-25-2016, 09:06 PM   #18
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My question would be, how hot is hot?

when the coil starts boiling the paint off of the coil cover...

seriously speaking I think most solenoids that we install, have different ratings on them..asco (for example) will list the normal ambient temperature range in the catalog cut sheets...and most often times, the fluid temp will be additive to the overal temp rating of the coil
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:09 PM   #19
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Here is an example..of an Asco..with the coil insulation information..
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:43 AM   #20
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Quote:
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My question would be, how hot is hot?
I think it will be around 40-50 degree celcius for 2 hours hold.
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If it is latching why would it get hot?
There is many types of fuel solenoid, this one is the fuel shut off solenoid. 3 wires, a black wire to ground, red wire goes to positive, white wire touches red wire for one sec to pull and hold the solenoid. When red wire disconnect from positive, it will stop holding. So i guess, the coil is working as a magnet while getting electricity from positive battery. Thats why it gets hot, perhaps?
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