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Old 10-15-2019, 03:05 PM   #1
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Question Fuse Panel Not Adequate for Home Insurance?

We recently purchased a home and the insurance company completed an inspection. Below is what the insurance company said I must fix, followed by what the initial home inspection report (not by insurance company), noted regarding the electric. I am wondering if what the insurance company wrote is incorrect based on what my home inspection report shows

From the Insurance company:

Electrical fuse panel. Fuse panel must be replaced with a minimum 100 amp or higher circuit breaker by a licensed contractor.
From the home inspection report prior to purchase:
Service Panel: Siemens 200 amp, 115/230 volt capacity, Circuit breakers, Basement
Branch Circuits: Copper, which did appear to be appropriately matched to the Circuit breakers
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:25 PM   #2
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See @Cricket, this is the type of question that non-electrical pro's should be able to ask here. It's not DIY and I think they would get better answers here than at the DIY forum. But you ignored my private message completely

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyharry View Post
We recently purchased a home and the insurance company completed an inspection. Below is what the insurance company said I must fix, followed by what the initial home inspection report (not by insurance company), noted regarding the electric. I am wondering if what the insurance company wrote is incorrect based on what my home inspection report shows

From the Insurance company:

Electrical fuse panel. Fuse panel must be replaced with a minimum 100 amp or higher circuit breaker by a licensed contractor.
From the home inspection report prior to purchase:
Service Panel: Siemens 200 amp, 115/230 volt capacity, Circuit breakers, Basement
Branch Circuits: Copper, which did appear to be appropriately matched to the Circuit breakers
The insurance company can ask for whatever they want. You either accept their requirement or find a different insurance company who has different requirements. Now if they made a mistake, then you need to find it and show them.

I would get clarification on what exactly they want done and why. Did they mistake the breaker panel for a fusepanel? Or the size? Or are they talking about a small subpanel located elsewhere? Who knows, you need to get as much information as possible.
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Last edited by HackWork; 10-15-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyharry View Post
We recently purchased a home and the insurance company completed an inspection. Below is what the insurance company said I must fix, followed by what the initial home inspection report (not by insurance company), noted regarding the electric. I am wondering if what the insurance company wrote is incorrect based on what my home inspection report shows

From the Insurance company:

Electrical fuse panel. Fuse panel must be replaced with a minimum 100 amp or higher circuit breaker by a licensed contractor.
From the home inspection report prior to purchase:
Service Panel: Siemens 200 amp, 115/230 volt capacity, Circuit breakers, Basement
Branch Circuits: Copper, which did appear to be appropriately matched to the Circuit breakers
I'd just call your insurance, and tell them it is a 200A breaker panel ... and ask them 'what's wrong ? '
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:14 PM   #4
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I'd just call your insurance, and tell them it is a 200A breaker panel ... and ask them 'what's wrong ? '
$50 says there is one of those little 4 spot fuse panels plastered behind a door somewhere upstairs or in the attic.
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Old 10-15-2019, 04:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
$50 says there is one of those little 4 spot fuse panels plastered behind a door somewhere upstairs or in the attic.
I read one recently, probably at DIYchat , where the insurance was freaking over a fused disconnect for a HWT

Fuses kill people
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
See @Cricket,

The insurance company can ask for whatever they want. You either accept their requirement or find a different insurance company who has different requirements. Now if they made a mistake, then you need to find it and show them.

I would get clarification on what exactly they want done and why. Did they mistake the breaker panel for a fusepanel? Or the size? Or are they talking about a small subpanel located elsewhere? Who knows, you need to get as much information as possible.
Thanks for your advice. This was the company's response:
"I looked at the photos from the inspection and indicated that yes, the
home does indeed have the appropriate circuit breakers. However, it
also appears that the home has a fuse box as well. They would need
proof from an electrician that the fuse box has been either removed or
disconnected.

Rest assured, the circuit breakers are the appropriate amperage and
nothing further needs to be done with the circuit breakers".
So....Not sure where that leaves me, other than scratching my head
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:51 PM   #7
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Is there a fuse panel? If not tell them to show you where the fuse panel is... Fuse panels properly done are probably safer than breakers. The problem is people oversize the fuses.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyharry View Post
Thanks for your advice. This was the company's response:
"I looked at the photos from the inspection and indicated that yes, the
home does indeed have the appropriate circuit breakers. However, it
also appears that the home has a fuse box as well. They would need
proof from an electrician that the fuse box has been either removed or
disconnected.

Rest assured, the circuit breakers are the appropriate amperage and
nothing further needs to be done with the circuit breakers".
So....Not sure where that leaves me, other than scratching my head
Ask him for the picture of the fuse box. Is it possible that you have one in your house somewhere?

If you can’t find it then maybe you will have to get an electrician in there to look around and write up a letter confirming that there is no fuse box in the house.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:21 PM   #9
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Fuse panels work fine with the exception of there is limited space for expansion or the ability for adding arc fault breakers to code.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by nrp3 View Post
Fuse panels work fine with the exception of there is limited space for expansion or the ability for adding arc fault breakers to code.
They are generally extremely old, they are small and the wiring is packed in tight, they are dangerous because you could put a much larger fuse than the wire could handle, and many of them have exposed energized parts. In general, if you have to make a rule across-the-board, it’s a good idea to replace them.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:41 PM   #11
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100 amp sub panels are reasonably priced, so if you have a fused panel somewhere it’s probably not too big of a deal to replace. My guess is the more difficult of the task is replacing the likely three wire feeder with an up to code four wire.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:30 PM   #12
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People over size breakers too lol

They should have made different fuses different sizes for what they insert into but they didn’t. They did however switch to the smaller sockets by means of adaptors which is good. Do you know how many houses I’ve been too and unscrewed a fuse to find a nickel or a quarter back there?


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Old 10-15-2019, 11:12 PM   #13
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Maybe ask if it would be acceptable to replace the fuses with circuit breakers?
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
See @Cricket, this is the type of question that non-electrical pro's should be able to ask here. It's not DIY and I think they would get better answers here than at the DIY forum. But you ignored my private message completely



The insurance company can ask for whatever they want. You either accept their requirement or find a different insurance company who has different requirements. Now if they made a mistake, then you need to find it and show them.

I would get clarification on what exactly they want done and why. Did they mistake the breaker panel for a fusepanel? Or the size? Or are they talking about a small subpanel located elsewhere? Who knows, you need to get as much information as possible.

Maybe a sub forum section: "Ask the pros a question" but just for these type questions
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drsparky14 View Post
People over size breakers too lol

They should have made different fuses different sizes for what they insert into but they didn’t. They did however switch to the smaller sockets by means of adaptors which is good. Do you know how many houses I’ve been too and unscrewed a fuse to find a nickel or a quarter back there?


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They make these fancy things called fuse ejectors. They screw into the fuse socket. Blue is 15 amp and red (or pink... I can't remember) are 20 amp. You can put smaller but not bigger fuses in.

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Old 10-16-2019, 04:56 AM   #16
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I bought an old old house once that had the original 30A fuse box on an outside wall from 1910 when it was built. It was embedded into the ship-lap siding, making it difficult to remove and/or ugly to patch the hole, so it was disconnected and left behind when the service was upgraded to a 100A breaker panel, probably in the 1950s from the looks of it. When I went to insure the house after buying it I went through a similar thing, I had to have a licensed electrician certify that it was no longer in service. I happened to know a licensed electrician at that time (he was sleeping with my wife every night!) He did it for a nominal fee.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:02 AM   #17
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I bought an old old house once that had the original 30A fuse box on an outside wall from 1910 when it was built. It was embedded into the ship-lap siding, making it difficult to remove and/or ugly to patch the hole, so it was disconnected and left behind when the service was upgraded to a 100A breaker panel, probably in the 1950s from the looks of it. When I went to insure the house after buying it I went through a similar thing, I had to have a licensed electrician certify that it was no longer in service. I happened to know a licensed electrician at that time (he was sleeping with my wife every night!) He did it for a nominal fee.
Insurance companies often have crazy rules. I've had quite a few instances in which all traces of knob and tube wiring had to be removed, included the knobs. It didn't matter that there was no wiring at all, those knobs had to be removed from the joists in the basement.

This is the typical way that things work when someone sitting in an office without any real world knowledge makes the rules, kinda like the people who make the electrical code.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by JRaef View Post
I bought an old old house once that had the original 30A fuse box on an outside wall from 1910 when it was built. It was embedded into the ship-lap siding, making it difficult to remove and/or ugly to patch the hole, so it was disconnected and left behind when the service was upgraded to a 100A breaker panel, probably in the 1950s from the looks of it. When I went to insure the house after buying it I went through a similar thing, I had to have a licensed electrician certify that it was no longer in service. I happened to know a licensed electrician at that time (he was sleeping with my wife every night!) He did it for a nominal fee.
So where did you fit in this picture?
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:58 AM   #19
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I argued with an insurance guy who showed up at my house for an inspection about what size my service was. It was a 125 amp rated enclosure with 100 amp breakers. He was trying to tell me I had a 125 amp service.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRaef View Post
I bought an old old house once that had the original 30A fuse box on an outside wall from 1910 when it was built. It was embedded into the ship-lap siding, making it difficult to remove and/or ugly to patch the hole, so it was disconnected and left behind when the service was upgraded to a 100A breaker panel, probably in the 1950s from the looks of it. When I went to insure the house after buying it I went through a similar thing, I had to have a licensed electrician certify that it was no longer in service. I happened to know a licensed electrician at that time (he was sleeping with my wife every night!) He did it for a nominal fee.



Hmm, I'd think there should have been no fee at all...........
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