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Old 02-17-2015, 10:50 AM   #1
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Default Generator panels

Hey just have a question regarding what type of panel to instal for a customer that doesn't have the generator yet or any specs for that matter.

It's a new house with a 50a inlet going in to feed the generator panel. I am not quite sure which panel to install for them since they do not have the generator I have saw panels for both unbounded and bonded neutrals is one of these capable of doing both safely?
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:15 AM   #2
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Don't worry about the generator yet. This sounds like it will be a manual setup with a 50amp inlet.

i would just install an interlock in the main panel to a 2/50 breaker and make them a procedure checklist of which breakers to open so as not to overload the portable generator.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:18 PM   #3
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I agree. When I do these, I like to give them the capability of running any room in the house. Just not everything at the same time. The problem with a generator panel is they will always want more. Can you addv this circuit? Oh we forgot the microwave circuit, can you add that? I need the kids room to work too. Yada yada



I give them the whole panel, label each breaker either red, yellow, or green. I tell them they can't run any of the ones marked red. They can run 3 or 4 of the ones marked yellow, and 6 or 8 of the ones marked green.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JPRO2 View Post

It's a new house with a 50a inlet going in to feed the generator panel.
Are you planning on a separate generator panel or backfeeding the main panel with an interlock?

A generator with a 50a outlet is going to be expensive and weigh 400 lbs. +
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:35 PM   #5
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I give them the whole panel, label each breaker either red, yellow, or green. I tell them they can't run any of the ones marked red. They can run 3 or 4 of the ones marked yellow, and 6 or 8 of the ones marked green.
I think I'm going to steal your idea.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPRO2 View Post
Hey just have a question regarding what type of panel to instal for a customer that doesn't have the generator yet or any specs for that matter.

It's a new house with a 50a inlet going in to feed the generator panel. I am not quite sure which panel to install for them since they do not have the generator I have saw panels for both unbounded and bonded neutrals is one of these capable of doing both safely?
i see what you are getting at tho. Is the N bonded at the generator etc. Call it standby backup and not separately derived. Try to find a house panel that offers an OEM interlock kit, and try to make the sale on the generator .
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post


I give them the whole panel, label each breaker either red, yellow, or green. I tell them they can't run any of the ones marked red. They can run 3 or 4 of the ones marked yellow, and 6 or 8 of the ones marked green.

I'm fairly sure it's a code, but having trouble picking it out McClary...


I'd rather find this in 702, but this is as close as i can find>

Quote:
701.27 Selective Coordination. Legally required standby
system(s) overcurrent devices shall be selectively coordi-
nated with all supply-side overcurrent protective devices.
Selective coordination shall be selected by a licensed
professional engineer or other qualified persons engaged
primm'ily in the design, installation, or rnaintenallce of elec-
trical The selection shall be documented and made
available to those authorized to design, install. inspect,
maintain, and operate the system.
anybody? ~CS~
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:01 PM   #8
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i see what you are getting at tho. Is the N bonded at the generator etc.
Honda has portables without N/G bond(no GFI). I'm not sure about other manufacturers.
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
I'm fairly sure it's a code, but having trouble picking it out McClary...


I'd rather find this in 702, but this is as close as i can find>



anybody? ~CS~
True but this is not a legally required system
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Old 02-17-2015, 07:29 PM   #10
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Most of the portables are neutral bonded. To solve this problem, go with the unbonded Honda and an interlock, go with one of Reliance's Xpanels, which you can wire for seperately derived or non, or 200 amp breaker enclosure that's bonded as the service entrance, three pole double throw transfer switch, and seperate grounds and neutrals in existing panel. Fed by whatever sized generator you like. Sold a 10kw portable set up like this recently and pricing one for the town for a neighborhood with community septic and well pumps.
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Old 02-17-2015, 11:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
I'm fairly sure it's a code, but having trouble picking it out McClary...


I'd rather find this in 702, but this is as close as i can find>



anybody? ~CS~

I think this is what you are looking for.


Quote:
702.4 Capacity and Rating
(A) Available Short-Circuit Current. Optional standby
system equipment shall be suitable for the maximum available
short-circuit current at its terminals.
(B) System Capacity. The calculations of load on the
standby source shall be made in accordance with Article 220
or by another approved method.
(1) Manual Transfer Equipment. Where manual transfer
equipment is used, an optional standby system shall have
adequate capacity and rating for the supply of all equipment
intended to be operated at one time. The user of the optional
standby system shall be permitted to select the load connected
to the system.
(2) Automatic Transfer Equipment. Where automatic
transfer equipment is used, an optional standby system shall
comply with (2)(a) or (2)(b).
(a) Full Load. The standby source shall be capable of
supplying the full load that is transferred by the automatic
transfer equipment.
(b) Load Management. Where a system is employed
that will automatically manage the connected load, the
standby source shall have a capacity sufficient to supply the
maximum load that will be connected by the load management
system.
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Old 02-18-2015, 01:20 AM   #12
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I talked with our wholesaler about interlock kits for the panel we installed and he had no source for them nor has he heard of them. So I think I will go the unbonded route and tell the homeowners they must select a generator based on that.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPRO2 View Post
I talked with our wholesaler about interlock kits for the panel we installed and he had no source for them nor has he heard of them. So I think I will go the unbonded route and tell the homeowners they must select a generator based on that.
There are numerous interlock kit suppliers online. I prefer this method because of the flexibility of which circuits you power up. Just my .02
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:22 AM   #14
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I agree I like the idea it looks nice and fast and simple. Unfortunately this is one of those jobs we can't wait to get away from so we need to work with what's in Stock
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Old 02-18-2015, 12:09 PM   #15
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Geninterlock.com. Works and is least expensive transfer option
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