Getting shock from grounded (neutral) - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY, IT'S FREE!
Go Back   Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum > Electrical Forum > General Electrical Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-13-2015, 01:16 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bloomington IN
Posts: 277
Rewards Points: 132
Default Getting shock from grounded (neutral)

I was thinking about this yesterday:

In an attic, we had temp feeder from panel OCPD to a sub panel so we could disassemble and reconnect pipe to new panel.

The temp connection was a splice made with split bolts. The two hot feeds were tapes but grounded conductor splice was not. I tested amps and had about 4 A on it.

What would it take for me to get shocked from touching it? I avoided it, but figure there's no potential to ground so no risk of shock?

Sorry if this is an ignorant question but I need it explained
dielectricunion is offline   Reply With Quote
Join Contractor Talk

Join the #1 Electrician Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

ElectricianTalk.com - Are you a Professional Electrical Contractor? If so we invite you to join our community and see what it has to offer. Our site is specifically designed for you and it's the leading place for electricians to meet online. No homeowners asking DIY questions. Just fellow tradesmen who enjoy talking about their business, their trade, and anything else that comes up. No matter what your specialty is you'll find that ElectricianTalk.com is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally free!

Join ElectricianTalk.com - Click Here JOIN FOR FREE


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ElectricianTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-13-2015, 01:22 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
The_kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 659
Rewards Points: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dielectricunion View Post
I was thinking about this yesterday:

In an attic, we had temp feeder from panel OCPD to a sub panel so we could disassemble and reconnect pipe to new panel.

The temp connection was a splice made with split bolts. The two hot feeds were tapes but grounded conductor splice was not. I tested amps and had about 4 A on it.

What would it take for me to get shocked from touching it? I avoided it, but figure there's no potential to ground so no risk of shock?

Sorry if this is an ignorant question but I need it explained

Don't open that splice up and put yourself between it.
The_kid is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to The_kid For This Useful Post:
Grounded-B (02-16-2015), JDJ (02-16-2015), mikey383 (02-13-2015), Mountain Electrician (02-13-2015), Shockdoc (02-13-2015)
Old 02-13-2015, 01:26 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eighty Four,Pa.15330
Posts: 7,985
Rewards Points: 1,464
Default

If it was terminated at the main panel correctly you should have 0 volts to ground on it. It still has current through it. Draw it out.
bobelectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-13-2015, 01:27 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Bloomington IN
Posts: 277
Rewards Points: 132
Default

Oh okay, that makes sense. I was thinking... I know I've been shocked by neutral before but how does that happen?
dielectricunion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 01:30 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eighty Four,Pa.15330
Posts: 7,985
Rewards Points: 1,464
Default

Like the kid said,don't get between it.
bobelectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 01:33 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
The_kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 659
Rewards Points: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dielectricunion View Post
Oh okay, that makes sense. I was thinking... I know I've been shocked by neutral before but how does that happen?

Think about it.

What's the load on that circuit?

Where's the load going?

If you put yourself in series with that neutral...
The_kid is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to The_kid For This Useful Post:
RIVETER (02-13-2015)
Old 02-13-2015, 04:02 PM   #7
Very Long Vacation
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: united states of america
Posts: 11,766
Rewards Points: 5,262
Default

Its not at ground potential. As soon as load is applied to the neutral the voltage to earth goes up. This is due to the voltage drop across the wire back to the source.
meadow is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to meadow For This Useful Post:
chicken steve (02-13-2015), Grounded-B (02-16-2015), hardworkingstiff (02-13-2015), Mountain Electrician (02-13-2015), Semi-Ret Electrician (02-13-2015), The_kid (02-13-2015)
Old 02-13-2015, 04:36 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: US
Posts: 575
Rewards Points: 430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dielectricunion View Post
Oh okay, that makes sense. I was thinking... I know I've been shocked by neutral before but how does that happen?

An easy way to think of it is the neutral (grounded conductor) is completing the circuit.

Now if for some reason the neutral was too short you would take a short section of wire, connect it to the neutral bar and the neutral conductor thus completing the circuit and current would now be flowing on every component of the circuit.

If you were to remove the short section of wire and replace it with your body you would now have current flowing through your body and be receiving a shock during the duration of current flowing in the circuit.
__________________
Originally Posted by piperunner I just told you guys why you just cant read try to read better does that happen a lot up north must be the cold .
Fibes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 06:45 PM   #9
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadow View Post
Its not at ground potential. As soon as load is applied to the neutral the voltage to earth goes up. This is due to the voltage drop across the wire back to the source.
So, to expand on this a tad Meadow....

The further we are down the circuit, the more this phenomenon should appear

~CS~
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 07:29 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
The_kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 659
Rewards Points: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
So, to expand on this a tad Meadow....



The further we are down the circuit, the more this phenomenon should appear



~CS~

Voltage drop resistance + natural human body resistance =
The_kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 07:29 PM   #11
evil bastard
 
mcclary's electrical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: State of Euphoria
Posts: 15,771
Rewards Points: 746
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
So, to expand on this a tad Meadow....

The further we are down the circuit, the more this phenomenon should appear

~CS~
Exactly. 8 volts of voltage drop will have 8 volt difference of potential from grounding conductor to grounded conductor.
mcclary's electrical is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mcclary's electrical For This Useful Post:
meadow (02-13-2015)
Old 02-13-2015, 08:17 PM   #12
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

I'm wondering if my Ideal VD tester operates on that simplicity McClary

~CS~
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 08:48 PM   #13
Very Long Vacation
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: united states of america
Posts: 11,766
Rewards Points: 5,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
So, to expand on this a tad Meadow....

The further we are down the circuit, the more this phenomenon should appear

~CS~
Yup. Load and wire size also play a role. The smaller the wire and/or the more current, the more voltage drop. The more voltage drop the more voltage your neutral will read to earth.
meadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 08:49 PM   #14
Very Long Vacation
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: united states of america
Posts: 11,766
Rewards Points: 5,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
Exactly. 8 volts of voltage drop will have 8 volt difference of potential from grounding conductor to grounded conductor.
Said better than me.
meadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 08:53 PM   #15
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

Thx Meadow
So we can basically reverse engineer the VD formula from the far end of a circuit, which i suspect my fancy dancy VD meter is doing for me.....~CS~
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 08:59 PM   #16
Very Long Vacation
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: united states of america
Posts: 11,766
Rewards Points: 5,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
Thx Meadow
So we can basically reverse engineer the VD formula from the far end of a circuit, which i suspect my fancy dancy VD meter is doing for me.....~CS~


A High impedance meter is good at picking such stuff up.


Basically when you have voltage drop current is being restricted, so a rise in voltage takes place. That rise in voltage wants to push current along alternate paths back to the source. So if you touch the neutral while grounded some of that current will go through you.

Also the reason why current should be kept off grounding wires.
meadow is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to meadow For This Useful Post:
chicken steve (02-14-2015)
Old 02-14-2015, 07:17 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
220/221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 7,675
Rewards Points: 4,124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_kid View Post
Don't open that splice up and put yourself between it.

I bet everyone remembers when they found that out the hard way.


I was only a few weeks in and troubleshooting some 120V landscape lights.

I went from, "WTF" to "Duh" in about 10 seconds.
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2015, 07:31 PM   #18
Retired Account
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: the Green Mountain state
Posts: 39,722
Rewards Points: 14,650
Default

Lady calls and complains that she gets shocked doing laundry

But only when the dryer is on , and she's touching the washer or sink.......

~CS~
chicken steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2015, 07:33 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
The_kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 659
Rewards Points: 12
Default

My buddy gets hit in his stove when he touches a metal knife to the pan he's cooking on.

So I told him to wear shoes when he cooks
The_kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2015, 07:02 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Cl906um's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 1,626
Rewards Points: 1,206
Default

After reading posts I was wondering if you were talking amps, or volts on the equipment ground. You were saying amps, and others talked volts. Or, were you talking on the grounded conductor? Pretty sure you were getting 4 amps on grounded which has same potential as earth, but like the others said, don't open it..

Last edited by Cl906um; 02-15-2015 at 07:06 PM.
Cl906um is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Loose Neutral Shock Hazard GEORGE D General Electrical Discussion 17 06-13-2013 10:56 PM
Grounded Neutral Dube2 Commercial Electrical Forum 15 05-07-2012 01:12 PM
Neutral v.s. Grounded conductor? Cletis General Electrical Discussion 35 04-16-2012 07:55 AM
Help troubleshooting grounded neutral ShannonWilson General Electrical Discussion 7 05-29-2008 11:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Our Pro Sites Network
ContractorTalk.com | DrywallTalk.com | HVACSite.com | PaintTalk.com | PlumbingZone.com | RoofingTalk.com