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Old 11-27-2016, 08:13 PM   #1
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Default Gfci protection theory debate

So in theory we have a buried pipe and 1 20 amp 120v feeding a pedestal that provides usb only receptacles to a play ground no 120 receptacles on these faces. Obviously they would be weather proof covers but would code require gfci protection on such an installation?
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anathera View Post
So in theory we have a buried pipe and 1 20 amp 120v feeding a pedestal that provides usb only receptacles to a play ground no 120 receptacles on these faces. Obviously they would be weather proof covers but would code require gfci protection on such an installation?
That is good question and I will make a safe bet I am pretty sure you will need some type of GFCI protection due it is in outdoor location.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:41 PM   #3
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I would say no. Just like having low voltage lighting. Its output is 5 volts.
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:48 PM   #4
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Interesting one. 210.8(B) says 120V 15 & 20A receptacles, which a usb outlet is not even though it's outside. hmm. Maybe it's addressed in 2017?
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Old 11-27-2016, 08:58 PM   #5
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Default Gfci protection theory debate

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So in theory we have a buried pipe and 1 20 amp 120v feeding a pedestal that provides usb only receptacles to a play ground no 120 receptacles on these faces. Obviously they would be weather proof covers but would code require gfci protection on such an installation?

I had an inspector make us cover USB terminals but never mentioned gfci. He said the code wasn't clear.
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:09 PM   #6
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I would say no.

I would also wish shock on the dumb parents that have to charge their phones at the play ground instead of interacting with their children.
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Old 11-27-2016, 10:21 PM   #7
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Yeah, that was my first thought.


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Old 11-27-2016, 10:31 PM   #8
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Probably not but for a $35 breaker. I am GFCI'ing it.
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Old 11-28-2016, 01:56 AM   #9
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I'd use GFCI without a doubt. If it's a gray area in the code, err towards the install that is safer and doesn't catch you a rash with either interpretation.

Especially since there's zero chance you won't get paid for this. I can't imagine a municipality that would bother to provide the nitwits charger ports, but would decline a $100 upcharge to keep the parents and children safe. Especially if you offered it in writing.

Even if the outlet is USB and low voltage, it's not impossible that there could be a ground fault that winds up with a touch potential on the pedestal itself. Unless it made the conversion from line voltage to low voltage inside the structure, then I could see not bothering.

You never know what someone's going to come along and do after, such as a maintenance man surface mounting a convenience outlet on the pedestal. If there's an issue you could argue in court that it was the person that modified it that's at fault, or you could spend a few extra bucks, make a few extra bucks, avoid having something happen, and avoid arguing it in court.
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Old 11-28-2016, 02:40 AM   #10
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gfi breaker. Break a lawyer's heart. Don't forget to paste the sticker for monthly testing at the panel also. Best defense is a good offense.
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:10 AM   #11
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I'd install both receptacles NEMA 5-15R and USB... with an in-use weatherproof cover.

Playground.

Children.

Outside.

Lawsuit waiting to happen. Big-time lawsuit waiting to happen.

I'd have the circuit protected up stream with a conventional GFCI.

That is, I'd install a two-gang box. The cost difference in labor and materials is a joke.

(There is an excellent probability that the 120 VAC will be put to use, as well.)

Don't over-think materials savings. Such attempts normally Blow-Up.
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:22 AM   #12
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Ditto- just because you don't have to ?
doesn't mean you cannot
Any chances and I would err on the side of caution.
That's why they have electricians
your supposed to think of these things.
To protect dumb idiots from them selves !
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:31 AM   #13
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IMO, gfci is not required. Heck every laptop that is carried around would need gfci protection if that were the case
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:33 AM   #14
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How effective is gfci protection after the secondary of the USB Xformer...?

~CS~
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:39 AM   #15
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How effective is gfci protection after the secondary of the USB Xformer...?

~CS~
I don't think you'd see the current imbalance on the primary side of the charger's transformer, but a fault ahead of the transformer (inside the pedestal) could still be dangerous, and the GFCI would be worth it for that.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:59 PM   #16
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I didn't think that it would help on the secondary side but I definately thing gfci with cover would be ideal. It's all just theory anyways but I thought it was a good puzzle
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I don't think you'd see the current imbalance on the primary side of the charger's transformer, but a fault ahead of the transformer (inside the pedestal) could still be dangerous, and the GFCI would be worth it for that.
If the pedestal was wired correctly with the bax bonded, the breaker would protect it too. You can't save everybody. Natural selection will take care of them.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:15 PM   #18
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Should put an arc fault in in case somebody drives a stake in the ground for a circus tent. It is hard to post sarcasm ��
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:19 PM   #19
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Maybe encase it in concrete. Let's spend some money. I should be on the code making board. Nobody could afford to build a doghouse.
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:22 PM   #20
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I say we go the other way with this.

Lets run PVC conduit, but only 2 conductors (no ground), then bond the neutral of the USB receptacle to all the metal playground equipment.

That way whenever the parents plug in their phones, the little tykes get a buzz.

That'll learn 'em to trust their gubmint.

Plus, **** 'em if they can't take a joke.

Damn. I don't know why I'm in such a mood. But I'm not sorry.
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