Give me your opinion on this simple idea for safety....... - Page 4 - Electrician Talk - Professional Electrical Contractors Forum
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:59 PM   #61
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We have one site where we install a UPA-130 anytime we install or modify an MCC bucket. It allows operations to perform LO/TO. For motors they also try a test start from a local hand station and hang a test start tag. Although "we" will still test with a meter.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:31 PM   #62
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I didn't read this entire thread but if I remember tomorrow I'll take pictures of some gear with this stuff built in.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:42 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterup View Post
quite frankly , if we were to start relying on indicator lights instead of
testing busses , it would dummy down discipline and then the accidents
and tragedies would start rising.
Accidents also happen when people are testing busses to verify zero potential. The lights if used properly can be used as a first line of defense before opening up the gear exposing yourself to potential hazards.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:42 PM   #64
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People, people, people!! Please think about all of the sh*tty wiring we've seem just on this website.

How do you KNOW that the wires to these LED's are hooked up to the correct place?
Are you going to trust your life on it?

I simply do not get it. Sorry for the rant but I just don't see management backing me up if l was to get hurt. Their lawyer would point out all of the training I've taken and nail my butt to the wall. Goodbye any $$$$ for me or my widow.

Again, I apologize for the rant but this just gets me riled up.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:52 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill39 View Post
People, people, people!! Please think about all of the sh*tty wiring we've seem just on this website.

How do you KNOW that the wires to these LED's are hooked up to the correct place?
Are you going to trust your life on it?

I simply do not get it. Sorry for the rant but I just don't see management backing me up if l was to get hurt. Their lawyer would point out all of the training I've taken and nail my butt to the wall. Goodbye any $$$$ for me or my widow.

Again, I apologize for the rant but this just gets me riled up.
I posted an idea to be used as a tool in applying a layer of safety. It seems there are so many grandstanders ready to preach that what they have is so perfect that no new ideas are welcomed. I NEVER, repeat NEVER, suggested that it be used to replace meter testing or 70E. I NEVER said to use the LEDs as the only thing to "trust your life upon". Can everybody just calm down and read before wild ranting and preaching.
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Old 07-13-2017, 12:14 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conclavicus View Post
I posted an idea to be used as a tool in applying a layer of safety. It seems there are so many grandstanders ready to preach that what they have is so perfect that no new ideas are welcomed. I NEVER, repeat NEVER, suggested that it be used to replace meter testing or 70E. I NEVER said to use the LEDs as the only thing to "trust your life upon". Can everybody just calm down and read before wild ranting and preaching.
Message rec'd and understood. It's just if people are misunderstanding the intent of their use here how are they going to respond with a production manager climbing down their neck?

Again, sorry for going off on a rant. Have a nice evening. I'm out.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:12 AM   #67
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This thread makes me laugh a bit cause I always remember old Earl, my boss from 1976 would poke both fingers into the incoming lugs of load centers to see if it was running on both legs or not............
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:02 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conclavicus View Post
I posted an idea to be used as a tool in applying a layer of safety. It seems there are so many grandstanders ready to preach that what they have is so perfect that no new ideas are welcomed. I NEVER, repeat NEVER, suggested that it be used to replace meter testing or 70E. I NEVER said to use the LEDs as the only thing to "trust your life upon". Can everybody just calm down and read before wild ranting and preaching.
It's all in how you did it. First of all you took credit for an idea that isn't yours, it's been out there for a long time before you were even born. People told you that but you ignored it. Second, even after people gave you reasons why it wasn't the best idea, you still called it "brilliant". That was essentially begging for a verbal lashing.
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Old 07-13-2017, 08:00 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conclavicus View Post
I posted an idea to be used as a tool in applying a layer of safety. It seems there are so many grandstanders ready to preach that what they have is so perfect that no new ideas are welcomed. I NEVER, repeat NEVER, suggested that it be used to replace meter testing or 70E. I NEVER said to use the LEDs as the only thing to "trust your life upon". Can everybody just calm down and read before wild ranting and preaching.
This, by any means doesn't have to be said. Many lazy workers don't even check the little proxy testers on a known live circuit. How many times have you dropped yours and then "assumed" it was working?

Don't get me wrong, we sell safety BUT.... people become lazy and start skipping steps to prove there zero's before working on equipment results aren't exactly favorable for the worker.

I personally like the idea of making a safer work environment. But the method doesn't seem to work out in my mind.

Maybe post up a schematic or rough drawing to communicate your idea a little clearer. As it appears "Everyone" seems to be against the idea- when troubleshooting and we notice one common denominator and keep ignoring it- the results will never change.
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:13 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill39 View Post
People, people, people!! Please think about all of the sh*tty wiring we've seem just on this website.

How do you KNOW that the wires to these LED's are hooked up to the correct place?
Are you going to trust your life on it?

I simply do not get it. Sorry for the rant but I just don't see management backing me up if l was to get hurt. Their lawyer would point out all of the training I've taken and nail my butt to the wall. Goodbye any $$$$ for me or my widow.

Again, I apologize for the rant but this just gets me riled up.
It's simply another layer of protection that would need to be verified before proceeding to the next step.

Do you KNOW your no-contact didn't give you a false reading? No you verify its working on a known voltage source and then you double check again with multimeter. But do you KNOW that you multimeter is functioning correctly? No thats why you verify on a known source before proceeding to the next step.


It's simple.

You walk up to the gear you are about to work on.
Verify panel or switchboard designation
Verify the lights are on
Disconnect and LOTO at the source
Return to gear and verify lights are now off and proceed with the rest of your standard loto procedure.

Or

When you return to the gear to verify lights are off but they aren't. You stop and reaccess the situation without ever opening the gear to expose yourself to a potential arc flash/ shock hazard


Mistakes happen everyday.
Panels/circuits get mis-labeled, things get back-fed, voltage testers fail, meter leads fail. Another layer between us and a burn unit or casket the better. I've seen 3 arc flash incidents since 2015 and it isn't pretty.
A buddy of mine spent time in a burn unit and he was wearing arc flash ppe, years after he still cant work in the field, he experiences pain and discomfort just being in the sun, he can't go to the pool or beach with his kids.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:18 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
these incorporate led indicators>>>


~CS~
If you are using this example to justify the use of LEDs, an AFCI is a different application.
In it's case, the indicator light is communicating that something is wrong and is alerting you to test the circuit; it is not indicating "all good". The breaker is also in a tripped position. If you are present, there is also the visual cue of switch movement and the aural cue of the "click' when the breaker trips.
If I were to approach a panel with an LED indicator on an AFCI, the first thing I would do is whip out my VOM.
Relying on an indicator light to avoid using my VOM is not very useful. I mean, If I want to switch off a circuit breaker, I'll just switch it off ...when I get to the wires (in another room, on another floor), I'll test to be sure that the labeling on the panel is correct ...because less than 50% chance it is.

What I would ACTUALLY LIKE would be for manufacturers to design ALL circuit breakers to have a F*ing VISIBLE, consumer-level, dummy-proof method of showing that a breaker is actually tripped. I Hate telling someone that I have to charge them for a visit because the circuit breaker was tripped. Or having someone looking at me trying to guess whether that CB switch is "loose" or "tripped".
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