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Old 09-30-2016, 08:24 AM   #41
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A bar like that seems interesting.... How many huge ones do you need to land in order for that to be efficient?
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:25 AM   #42
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I use almost nothing but the Siemens new PL series. All square drive, 100 percent neutrals. Hell I think it might have 100 percent grounds. Most of the time I take out the ground bars and land everything on the main bar.
All copper buss and these panels are heavy as hell. The only problem I see is that they are going up a bit. I just bought a 54 space 70 circuit MCB panel. $340 with tax I pay around $140 for a 40 space copper buss.
If it wasn't for these stupid wasteful AFCI's I would use their 40-80 everywhere.
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:29 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shocksystems View Post
I have installed a few Murray panels lately and they have all had a ground bar like this one:



Their 15 and 20 amp breakers accept square drive screwdrivers (I wish their 100 Amp breakers did as well). I don't understand why they don't make everything in the panel accept the square head. I still like their panels over the others, but this irks me.
Yes, I have pulled some of those ground bars out of the Murray panels. But Siemens seem to be all square drive.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-P...00CU/203027325

Even the lower ES series has square driver neutrals. https://www.downloads.siemens.com/do...id1=BTLV_39455
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:30 AM   #44
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I use almost nothing but the Siemens new PL series. All square drive, 100 percent neutrals. Hell I think it might have 100 percent grounds. Most of the time I take out the ground bars and land everything on the main bar.
All copper buss and these panels are heavy as hell. The only problem I see is that they are going up a bit. I just bought a 54 space 70 circuit MCB panel. $340 with tax I pay around $140 for a 40 space copper buss.
If it wasn't for these stupid wasteful AFCI's I would use their 40-80 everywhere.
I've notice some of them saying 150% neutrals.
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:33 AM   #45
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Most panels will last a long time in a nice warm and dry location. I like the ch ch because their bus bar seems to resist corrosion better than most.
There is an issue going on with CH-CH breakers popping off of the bus. It happened in the past, but now people at a local supply house that sells CH-CH are complaining about it happening again.
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:35 AM   #46
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I've notice some of them saying 150% neutrals.
Could be. Honsestly I take most of them out cut them into about three inch sections and drill and tap them into the bottom of the meter socket for my low voltage grounding point.
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:10 AM   #47
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Since this tread is all about different panel boards, I'm still looking for one where the line connections/lugs are made like meter sockets lugs.

Of course that would eliminate the Mickey Mouse Ears!
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:30 AM   #48
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Since this tread is all about different panel boards, I'm still looking for one where the line connections/lugs are made like meter sockets lugs.

Of course that would eliminate the Mickey Mouse Ears!
I've never seen that in any panel.

I don't make the mickey mouse ears because my hands are strong like the jaws of life.

Since I don't like loops, I will typically cut the conductor to length with it going straight down into the lug. Then I will pull the middle of it out of the panel while aiming the end into the lug. Then I push the middle of the conductor back into the panel so the end of it slides down into the lug.

Your idea would make this much easier.
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:45 AM   #49
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I've never seen that in any panel.

I don't make the mickey mouse ears because my hands are strong like the jaws of life.

Since I don't like loops, I will typically cut the conductor to length with it going straight down into the lug. Then I will pull the middle of it out of the panel while aiming the end into the lug. Then I push the middle of the conductor back into the panel so the end of it slides down into the lug.

Your idea would make this much easier.


I agree, I don't like the Mickey Mouse ears either.

I do it like you do.


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Old 10-01-2016, 07:33 PM   #50
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My second bad QO breaker. Got a Saturday morning call that the lights were out. This panel is two months old. The first bad breaker killed power to the freezer and the food spoiled (customer on vacation).

Did Schneider have a bad run?
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:35 PM   #51
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Regular breakers or AFCI?
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:37 PM   #52
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Regular breakers or AFCI?
standard breakers
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:41 PM   #53
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Wow, those kinds of failures are embarrassing. I had the flip out wings on a carlon old work box break twice. Might make me think about another brand. I don't think I have had a new breaker of any brand just fail on me like that.
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:45 PM   #54
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Neither have I. I ohmed them out and they're dead. And I sold this customer on Square D quality .
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:49 PM   #55
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Call backs suck especially when you did everything right. About the only time I will specifically go to QO is in housing when I'm replacing Zinsco or FPE. QO is the next most common type they have. Some GE, but I stick with QO in replacement. Haven't had any trouble like that though.
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Old 10-02-2016, 08:54 AM   #56
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Neither have I. I ohmed them out and they're dead. And I sold this customer on Square D quality .
I can see how that would be embarrassing, because I have sold customers on Square D also.

I really hope you contact that company and complain. It could do some good.
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Old 10-04-2016, 06:23 PM   #57
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Doesn't everyone!?
I don't. Plug the breaker on, then bend the wire to meet the breaker terminal. Works fine for me.

We are 100% Square-D. Haven't noticed their trip curve change any when accidents happen. We do mainly homeline in residential, and QO or NQOD in commercial/industrial for 120/208.
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