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Old 07-23-2015, 10:56 PM   #441
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Originally Posted by MTW View Post


And you're also free to make your living however you choose, without the government telling you that you can't.
Naahh, you are not. As much as I hate government interference I realize that when it comes to something such as sudo-professionalism there are too many people who think that they are qualified...and they are not.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:01 PM   #442
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Oregon is not a closed shop state, so you do not have to be a union member to work in the trade. But, to get started, you have to be a union member. So, because of union patronage, a dimbolt nephew gets in the program instead of some bright young fellow that does not have a card carrying relative.
That's pretty much how it worked here too until about 6 years ago when the economy took a dive and the union started bleeding members. Now they aren't so selective.
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Old 07-24-2015, 09:09 PM   #443
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Default Sparky B Goode

Deep down Louisiana close to New Orleans,
Way back up in the woods among the evergreens...
There stood a log cabin made of earth and wood,
Where lived a country boy name of Sparky B. Goode...
He never ever learned to read or write so well,
But he could wire a panel like ringing a bell.

Go Go go Sparky Go go Go Sparky B. Goode

He use to carry his NEC in a gunny sack
And sit beneath the trees by the railroad track.
Oh, the engineers used to see him sitting in the shade,
Reading that code book the NEC made.
People passing by would stop and hire
Cause that little country boy could really wire

Go Go go Sparky Go go Go Sparky B. Goode


His mentors told him someday you would be the man,
And you would be the leader of a big old plan.
Many people coming from miles around
To see you spark it up when the sun goes down
Maybe someday your name will be in lights "Saying Sparky B. Goode tonight!"

Go Go go Sparky Go go Go Sparky B. Goode


~C(w/apologies to Chuck Berry)
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Old 07-24-2015, 09:50 PM   #444
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Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
Deep down Louisiana close to New Orleans,
Way back up in the woods among the evergreens...
There stood a log cabin made of earth and wood,
Where lived a country boy name of Sparky B. Goode...
He never ever learned to read or write so well,
But he could wire a panel like ringing a bell.

Go Go go Sparky Go go Go Sparky B. Goode

He use to carry his NEC in a gunny sack
And sit beneath the trees by the railroad track.
Oh, the engineers used to see him sitting in the shade,
Reading that code book the NEC made.
People passing by would stop and hire
Cause that little country boy could really wire

Go Go go Sparky Go go Go Sparky B. Goode


His mentors told him someday you would be the man,
And you would be the leader of a big old plan.
Many people coming from miles around
To see you spark it up when the sun goes down
Maybe someday your name will be in lights "Saying Sparky B. Goode tonight!"

Go Go go Sparky Go go Go Sparky B. Goode


~C(w/apologies to Chuck Berry)~S

FIFY (very last letter)
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Old 07-25-2015, 02:08 AM   #445
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Mike Holt’s State Rating of the Electrical Industry - 2015 July 24, 2015Sent to 68510 Subscribers
Print It!

As part of our ongoing commitment to safety in the electrical community, we annually update our report that assigns a safety grade to each of the U.S. states based on points* for state-wide adoption and enforcement of the following electrical standards:
  • The most current NEC®
  • State licensing requirements for Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, Contractor, Inspector, Engineer
  • Continuing Education requirements for license renewal

THE CURRENT NEC®
The 2014 NEC® became effective on August 21, 2013. This report, and the map, reflect those states that have adopted it.

“A+” [HIGHEST] RANKING
Arkansas, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota and Wyoming - a ‘full house” of points due to adoption of the 2014 NEC®, and meeting the state mandated requirements on all the categories evaluated for this analysis.

HERE’S THE RANKING
Click Here for a complete history since 2007, and details of how the points are assigned.



*HOW THE POINTS ARE ASSIGNED
One point is assigned to each element of the licensing type, and one point for each element of the continuing education requirements for that license type. To see details of the points behind the grades Click Here

The number of points assigned for adoption of the most current NEC is 3. This year 2014 NEC=3 points, 2011 NEC=2 points, 2008 NEC=1 point, 2005 NEC = 0 and prior NEC or local adoption = -1 point. States that have not adopted a newer edition of the NEC since the last report will automatically slide down one point due to the new scale. The points in the ‘2015 CHG’ column indicates the change since the last report showing whether the state went up (+), down (-) or stayed the same (0).

Important note: We know that there are many safe counties and municipalities that take licensing and enforcement seriously. This will not be reflected in the data reported here because this analysis is based on a uniform standard that is the State adoption of the requirements, regardless of whether local counties and municipalities have their own high standards.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK!
If you have any updated information that you feel would change our rankings on this year’s report, please post your comment – we appreciate your feedback to help keep this analysis accurate and current.

ARCHIVE OF PAST REPORTS
Click Here for a complete history since 2007, and details of how the points are assigned.

We acknowledge and congratulate all those states, counties and local municipalities that continue to set high standards in electrical safety.

NEC® is a registered trademark of the National Fire Protection Agency.
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Old 07-25-2015, 06:58 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post



Mike Holt’s State Rating of the Electrical Industry - 2015 July 24, 2015Sent to 68510 Subscribers
Print It!

As part of our ongoing commitment to safety in the electrical community, we annually update our report that assigns a safety grade to each of the U.S. states based on points* for state-wide adoption and enforcement of the following electrical standards:
  • The most current NEC®
  • State licensing requirements for Apprentice, Journeyman, Master, Contractor, Inspector, Engineer
  • Continuing Education requirements for license renewal

THE CURRENT NEC®
The 2014 NEC® became effective on August 21, 2013. This report, and the map, reflect those states that have adopted it.

“A+” [HIGHEST] RANKING
Arkansas, Iowa, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota and Wyoming - a ‘full house” of points due to adoption of the 2014 NEC®, and meeting the state mandated requirements on all the categories evaluated for this analysis.

HERE’S THE RANKING
Click Here for a complete history since 2007, and details of how the points are assigned.



*HOW THE POINTS ARE ASSIGNED
One point is assigned to each element of the licensing type, and one point for each element of the continuing education requirements for that license type. To see details of the points behind the grades Click Here

The number of points assigned for adoption of the most current NEC is 3. This year 2014 NEC=3 points, 2011 NEC=2 points, 2008 NEC=1 point, 2005 NEC = 0 and prior NEC or local adoption = -1 point. States that have not adopted a newer edition of the NEC since the last report will automatically slide down one point due to the new scale. The points in the ‘2015 CHG’ column indicates the change since the last report showing whether the state went up (+), down (-) or stayed the same (0).

Important note: We know that there are many safe counties and municipalities that take licensing and enforcement seriously. This will not be reflected in the data reported here because this analysis is based on a uniform standard that is the State adoption of the requirements, regardless of whether local counties and municipalities have their own high standards.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK!
If you have any updated information that you feel would change our rankings on this year’s report, please post your comment – we appreciate your feedback to help keep this analysis accurate and current.

ARCHIVE OF PAST REPORTS
Click Here for a complete history since 2007, and details of how the points are assigned.

We acknowledge and congratulate all those states, counties and local municipalities that continue to set high standards in electrical safety.

NEC® is a registered trademark of the National Fire Protection Agency.
So New Jersey and Delaware have a higher grade than Pennsylvania but I see the same "quality" of work in all three states, so what is the point?
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:06 AM   #447
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We gotta A That's because we all sleep with our NEC jackboots on here , join us commrades! We will spread das Wort des NEC in diesem land !!!

~Chicken Siege~
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:08 AM   #448
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So New Jersey and Delaware have a higher grade than Pennsylvania but I see the same "quality" of work in all three states, so what is the point?
Montrez-nous vos papiers ....... vos papiers s'il vous plaît ! ~CS~
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Old 07-25-2015, 08:36 AM   #449
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We gotta A That's because we all sleep with our NEC jackboots on here , join us commrades! We will spread das Wort des NEC in diesem land !!!

~Chicken Siege~
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Old 07-25-2015, 08:41 AM   #450
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I would interpret that map in reverse order to decode states that give the most importance to personal liberty.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:07 AM   #451
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So New Jersey and Delaware have a higher grade than Pennsylvania but I see the same "quality" of work in all three states, so what is the point?
The point is to raise the bar on our profession-----more money for us.


There is a ton of un-inspected work out there,it does not matter what state it is.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:14 AM   #452
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I would interpret that map in reverse order to decode states that give the most importance to personal liberty.
History has shown that people are more than willing to give up freedom in order to be protected by the government. The issue of licensing is no exception to that.
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Old 07-25-2015, 09:26 AM   #453
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Money is the driving force here. Many people don't care about quality and don't give damn about anything except how much does it cost. The unlicensed hack.

A wanna be electrician, you know the guy with a hole hawg and a hatchet in the trunk of his worn out Honda, will always underbid any legitimate contractor. You can't compete and shouldn't even try. These guys will always be around, you see the shoddy work everywhere. Ask him about a license and then the BS begins.

So a license only means something to those who care, good customers and electricians. You are a legitimate businessman with insurance and the skills. You do good work and have repeat customers. You get permits and inspections.

As for me, here is my price, and I'm worth it. If you want cheap - get somebody else.

My thoughts exactly.



BT Electric
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:00 AM   #454
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History has shown that people are more than willing to give up freedom in order to be protected by the government. The issue of licensing is no exception to that.
Brilliant Pete, lets get rid of high school diplomas college degree's driving licenses, after all none of those things are needed to do what ever we see fit.

Anyone can perform brain surgery, why have a license for that?

Wana be a judge in a courtroom, hey just throw on a black robe and call yourself a judge.

Wana be a cop? just get Navy button down shirts and gun a night stick handcuffs and now you're a cop.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:10 AM   #455
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Brilliant Pete, lets get rid of high school diplomas college degree's driving licenses, after all none of those things are needed to do what ever we see fit.

Anyone can perform brain surgery, why have a license for that?

Wana be a judge in a courtroom, hey just throw on a black robe and call yourself a judge.

Wana be a cop? just get Navy button down shirts and gun a night stick handcuffs and now you're a cop.
I'm not against training and qualifications. I'm against licensing. You seem utterly unable to comprehend this distinction.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:35 AM   #456
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I'm not against training and qualifications. I'm against licensing. You seem utterly unable to comprehend this distinction.
You are against all of those things, who are you chitting.

You either have training and qualifications, or you do not.

Just walking around saying you have the training and qualifications does not cut it..

Also this thread is 13 days old, why have you not turned in your licenses? Seems hypocritical to me that you are still holding them.
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Last edited by Black Dog; 07-25-2015 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:38 AM   #457
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I would interpret that map in reverse order to decode states that give the most importance to personal liberty.
Exactly, this seems to be a map of 'which state rams the most rules on us', also known as 'which state is the most communistic'.
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Old 07-25-2015, 10:43 AM   #458
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I'm not against training and qualifications. I'm against licensing. You seem utterly unable to comprehend this distinction.
So this entire argument boils down to a piece of paper that says you have training and are qualified? My clients assume I have that piece of paper and, on demand, I will show it to them.

This seems to be lost in the endless drivel that this thread has become. Having a license give my customers a certain comfort level. These are people who buy name brand corn flakes over generic corn flakes. I'm not interested in customers who buy generic corn flakes. I'm the name brand electrician over the generic electrician.

As industry insiders we can argue about this forever but, as a contractor, I am more interested in how I am seen through the eyes of the customer. That piece of paper has value and any cost that goes along with obtaining and maintaining it is money well spent.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:52 PM   #459
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So this entire argument boils down to a piece of paper that says you have training and are qualified? My clients assume I have that piece of paper and, on demand, I will show it to them.

This seems to be lost in the endless drivel that this thread has become. Having a license give my customers a certain comfort level. These are people who buy name brand corn flakes over generic corn flakes. I'm not interested in customers who buy generic corn flakes. I'm the name brand electrician over the generic electrician.

As industry insiders we can argue about this forever but, as a contractor, I am more interested in how I am seen through the eyes of the customer. That piece of paper has value and any cost that goes along with obtaining and maintaining it is money well spent.
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Old 07-25-2015, 01:55 PM   #460
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I would interpret that map in reverse order to decode states that give the most importance to personal liberty.
Laissez faire to the hilt, eh?
Personal freedom also entails I can decide to whack my competition. It's only a law passed by the foolish government, right? Personal freedom!!!

So, really, though...are the current rules that draconian?
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