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Old 10-12-2013, 09:47 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by RIVETER View Post
A grounding electrode is for the purpose of taking an aberrant voltage...lightning...or whatever, to earth ground. It has nothing to do with circuit current.
What makes you think anything I posted says a grounding electrode has to do with circuit current? I only said you need one electrode at a separate building.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:48 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Going_Commando View Post
Hmmm. I was always told the grounding electrode system was to provide a solid connection to "Earth" in the event of a fault to protect personnel and property.
You are thinking of the equipment grounding conductor, which is bonded to a return path to produce a short circuit and trip the protective device in that instance. It could be a neutral or it could be phase conductor or it could be an ungrounded system.

The way I read the code, if there is a metal cold water pipe coming in it has to be used as a grounding electrode.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:45 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by KGN742003 View Post

The way I read the code, if there is a metal cold water pipe coming in it has to be used as a grounding electrode.
Finally...thank you.....

The code states "any and all that are present"

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Old 10-12-2013, 08:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Going_Commando View Post
Hmmm. I was always told the grounding electrode system was to provide a solid connection to "Earth" in the event of a fault to protect personnel and property.
In the event of a surge...lightning strike...or, possibly a primary to secondary short circuit at the service transformer, the ground, if properly installed should be able to clear the fault but it has absolutely not a thing to do with CIRCUIT current.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:17 PM   #25
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What makes you think anything I posted says a grounding electrode has to do with circuit current? I only said you need one electrode at a separate building.
Okay, don't get your panties in a wad.I am only saying that if it is a separate building why would you direct a lightning strike all the way back to the service...possibly many feet away? The electrode should be placed as close to the building as possible...even if it is remote to the primary service.
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:54 PM   #26
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first 5' of entrance water pipe, ufer, metal steel, ground rod, ground ring = electrode but make sure you bond the gas pipe too.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:19 AM   #27
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This is what I was thinking too. The problem is I have to explain this to a combination inspector.
If a pipe between buildings or from the main is in contact with earth, then it is also a potential electrical conductor that sometimes can have voltages different from the other earth grounds. Just another reason why the pipe must be bonded within five feet is so that pipes inside remain at same potential as equipment grounds and earth grounds.

Water pipe entering a building is an earth ground no matter what. But an inferior earth ground. Meaning other earth grounds also must exist. And that the water pipe must be bonded with those other grounds. As required by code and for other reasons.

Yes, that pipe replaced with plastic is but another reason for that 'less than 5 foot' requirement. Other electrical reasons also exist. A best bond to that incoming water pipe is as close as possible to where it enters the building.

BTW bonding a gas pipe varies with gas company requirements. Some want it. Others demand that ground not be there. Others seem to not care.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:57 AM   #28
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Looks like I'm bonding in the first five feet. That what it calls for me to do on the print anyway. I thought that I could save a little time and money.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:22 PM   #29
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Okay, don't get your panties in a wad.I am only saying that if it is a separate building why would you direct a lightning strike all the way back to the service...possibly many feet away? The electrode should be placed as close to the building as possible...even if it is remote to the primary service.
O.K. Still don't understand what any of that has to do with circuit current.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:09 PM   #30
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O.K. Still don't understand what any of that has to do with circuit current.
Okay, I've gone back and read the post. In your post...#17, you say something about only needing one electrode because the service was supplied from another building. Let's say you have a separate building as discussed and it is 200 feet away from the main source. I am saying that I would drive another rod...or, use any proper electrode in the separate building in order to protect the the building. Why send a aberrant voltage/current from whatever source, a longer distance unnecessarily ? It can take more time...in cycles per second to cause any disconnection to occur...and QUICKER is better in trying to make that disconnection. I meant no disrespect.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:57 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by RIVETER View Post
Okay, I've gone back and read the post. In your post...#17, you say something about only needing one electrode because the service was supplied from another building. Let's say you have a separate building as discussed and it is 200 feet away from the main source. I am saying that I would drive another rod...or, use any proper electrode in the separate building in order to protect the the building. Why send a aberrant voltage/current from whatever source, a longer distance unnecessarily ? It can take more time...in cycles per second to cause any disconnection to occur...and QUICKER is better in trying to make that disconnection. I meant no disrespect.
I think where you are losing the plot is there is no "disconnection" in the form of a tripped breaker or fuses. That is the job of the equipment grounding conductor which needs to run back to wherever the ocpd is.
The grounding electrode and conductor is what is being asked about here. It is needed because this is a seperate structure. You are correct in that you want this as close to a possible lightning strike as is practical. The reason you must take it back to within 5' of where it enters the building is to ensure there is a solid connection to a conductor and electrode(the underground water pipe in this case).
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:05 PM   #32
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250.68c contains the 5' bit. Looks like you would qualify for the exception though (institutional).
YOU should read it again.


Interior connections must be within 5 foot of where it enters the building.

Do it outside anywhere.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:37 PM   #33
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YOU should read it again.

Interior connections must be within 5 foot of where it enters the building.

Do it outside anywhere.
Not sure what you're on about, but I stand by my assesment that it qualifys for the exception based on institutional use. The op would have to determine if it meets all the criteria regarding being exposed throughout and maintained by qualified personell.
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:46 PM   #34
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Okay, I've gone back and read the post. In your post...#17, you say something about only needing one electrode because the service was supplied from another building. Let's say you have a separate building as discussed and it is 200 feet away from the main source. I am saying that I would drive another rod...or, use any proper electrode in the separate building in order to protect the the building. Why send a aberrant voltage/current from whatever source, a longer distance unnecessarily ? It can take more time...in cycles per second to cause any disconnection to occur...and QUICKER is better in trying to make that disconnection. I meant no disrespect.
I was just stating that you are only required one electrode at the separate building. Looks like I may be wrong on that front though. Not that the electrode should be the service electrode. I agree not good to send the spike long distance.
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