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Old 09-11-2013, 06:45 AM   #21
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The NEC is my shepherd; I shall not hack.
He maketh me to lie down in dirty crawspaces

he leadeth me beside the still breakers
He restoreth my gfci's

he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for liability's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of hacks,

I will fear no lawyer: for thou art with me;
thy AHJ and thy staff they comfort me.
Thou preparest citations before me in the presence of mine hacks:

thou fill up my head with toil
my helpers runneth me over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:

and I will dwell in the book of the NEC for ever.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:10 AM   #22
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As cute as the poem is...this really doesn't have anything to do with the NEC.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:19 AM   #23
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what? the nec isn't in the errruhmmmm .........commandments?
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:43 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by aftershockews View Post
I informed the customer that they may have a circuit trip in the future due to the live wires in the conduit we were unable to locate.
you can not be serious
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:55 AM   #25
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My helper went to a call today that consisted of 3 breakers tripping and the awning lights not working.
He was able to get the breakers to reset. But the awning lights still did not work.
I was called in to resolve.

Wires shorted out in a conduit run I could not locate.
So I backfeed from a constant hot I found under the awning.
Told customer I could not guarantee the work.

It's a church with alot of handyman wiring.

I have to agree with the general consensus of the responses. "I was called in to resolve." Yet you didn't resolve. You did some hack work on top of hack work on top of hack work! You did get everything "working" again, but didn't resolve anything. And you left a potentially dangerous situation there to probably rear its ugly head later! Simply telling the customer you cannot guarantee the work is not an excuse and would certainly not hold water in a courthouse! I would insist on going back to find the problem. Explain the dangers vs. the cost. Obviously, they are not used to paying "electrician" prices, but that is neither your fault nor your problem! You are a licensed electrician because you know better!
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:26 AM   #26
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Wow I can't believe the OP is coming on here and bragging about this.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #27
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I will call when I get a chance and see if I can find those wires.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:28 AM   #28
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Wow I can't believe the OP is coming on here and bragging about this.
You think I am bragging?
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:30 AM   #29
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I will call when I get a chance and see if I can find those wires.
Please Do!

Tell them they can have a special collection this Sunday to pay for it!
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:36 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
If the customer was happy with the quick patch up job ?
Then they are just as responsible too !

Some times you just gotta give the customer what he wants !
Even thou you think it is not "best practice".

I don't like to do it, but it's reality.
It's just the way some people operate.
This might be the most ignorant post of the year. The customer is not responsible at all, they know nothing about electricity. They only know they thought they hired a professional to take care of them and that is what they still think. You should have dug until you found the problem. Or at the very least disconnected it and gave them an estimate.
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:07 AM   #31
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You think I am bragging?
Bad word choice on my part, but the fact that you felt compelled to come on here and post how you got the lights on, but left a dangerous situation and called it good.
I wouldn't have been able to sleep leaving those wires hot.
Sounds like you're going to try to correct it.
Good for you
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:08 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by SteveBayshore
From experience: last "responsible" electrician on the site "WILL" be held responsible if, God forbid, anything ever happens. Also, loooong court cases suck, especially when you are a defendant.
What was your experience? How were you held responsible for work you didn't do
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:39 PM   #33
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What was your experience? How were you held responsible for work you didn't do
There is an old post somewhere. In short??: In 2003?, a ride mechanic (carney) was electrocuted. Every year I was hired to test the drive motors and their wiring and to start up the VFD on this particular ride. The ride scenery, lighting and ride cars weren't on the ride at the time of my work. On July 3rd, customers complained about getting shocks. The mechanic, wearing shorts, knelt down on one of the aluminum car decks. He had been in the process repairing/rewiring/rebuilding the lighting systems. The cars were mounted on nylon bushings and were not properly grounded from the factory. This car was now at 120(+-) volt potential that HE had caused. He leaned in at an awkard angle and touched the solidly grounded drive motor. Since he was off balance, his weight made it impossible to get away. After 5 years of legal sh-t, the ride owner, the original equipment manufacturer and the lowly electrician were held responsible. Since I was an experienced electrician, and know the hazards of electricity, I should have required the owner to hire me to test and check the rest of the ride after it was assembled, a month after I ran the motors. The only good thing, the final settlement was a LOT less than the original suit was filed for. I have three 4" binders of legal documents and correspondence left from this. Half way through the process the lawyer from my insurance company told me to look into more personal liability insurance because the suit was for more than my business umbrella policy covered. Luckily, insurance policy covered all but my lost sleep and lost time for a couple of years.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:27 PM   #34
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From experience: last "responsible" electrician on the site "WILL" be held responsible if, God forbid, anything ever happens. Also, loooong court cases suck, especially when you are a defendant.
It's always difficult when the customer is not interested in spending the money to do it right.
If you dont do , some one else will.
It's a game of craps, but life generally is.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:55 PM   #35
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I am all about safety, as well as making a buck. I would abandon shorted circuit and re feed. If they squak at estimate, mention too them about safety, and maybe the 10K plus $$$ they pull in every Sunday in the donation plate! So what is a $500-$1000 repair bill to a church? I would never cobble a circuit and walk away, remember, now you as a licensed contractor are now liable inspection or not!
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:10 PM   #36
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I will call when I get a chance and see if I can find those wires.

Where were the wires?
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #37
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It's always difficult when the customer is not interested in spending the money to do it right.
If you dont do , some one else will.
It's a game of craps, but life generally is.
Perfect........let someone else be held responsible. I ALWAYS disconnect and preferably isolate something I can show is unsafe. If they want to pay to fix it.....I'm on it like white on rice. If they don't want to pay.....I wish them luck and move on. Let someone else deal with it.

Always get it on paper as well......invoice them for the time spent finding the problem and making it safe. Quote the necessary repairs on paper and make a note or a record, or have them sign.....anything to create a paper trail if they elect to NOT have it done.

Cover Your Ass!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:52 PM   #38
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He was able to get the breakers to reset
By repeatedly closing them into a dead short?
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:02 PM   #39
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Where were the wires?
Right now I'm busier than a cat trying to cover his chit on a marble floor.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:03 PM   #40
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By repeatedly closing them into a dead short?
Don't know, I arrived after the breakers were holding.
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