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Old 06-19-2019, 07:37 PM   #21
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The bolded part are two things that I also thought when I first started using the "togglers" (snap off toggles), you are absolutely correct.



But in actual practice, normal toggles just work. The same reason why I have gone from plastic anchors to every other expensive anchor or cement screw, then right back to plastic anchors in the end. They just work.
I (in concrete) prefer tapcons to plastic anchors. Plastic anchors require scribbing the hole to be drilled (let's say a one hole strap) removal of the strap, drill, set anchor, put strap on and then screw into anchor.
Tapcons can be installed with the strap in place. With that being said I use plastic anchors 80 percent of the time. Tapcons don't work well in stucco (sometimes) and cost a lot.

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Old 06-19-2019, 08:23 PM   #22
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I (in concrete) prefer tapcons to plastic anchors. Plastic anchors require scribbing the hole to be drilled (let's say a one hole strap) removal of the strap, drill, set anchor, put strap on and then screw into anchor.
Tapcons can be installed with the strap in place. With that being said I use plastic anchors 80 percent of the time. Tapcons don't work well in stucco (sometimes) and cost a lot.
I’ve had too many issues with smaller tapcons stripping, plastic anchors always hold tight even in soft block.

When it comes to installing straps, I drill the hole before putting the strap on. Then I push in the anchor, install the strap, and screw it down.

For what it’s worth, you can install the anchor through the strap, or more commonly, through the back of a box that you are attaching to the wall.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:28 PM   #23
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In concrete I like lead anchors, though here in earthquake land we're not supposed to use them anymore, seismic inspectors prefer wedge anchors. I only ever use plastic anchors in very soft brick or block because lead anchors just spin free.

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Old 06-19-2019, 09:07 PM   #24
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I’ve had too many issues with smaller tapcons stripping, plastic anchors always hold tight even in soft block.



When it comes to installing straps, I drill the hole before putting the strap on. Then I push in the anchor, install the strap, and screw it down.



For what it’s worth, you can install the anchor through the strap, or more commonly, through the back of a box that you are attaching to the wall.
I have that problem at times too. I will use a smaller bit then recommend for my pilot hole.

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Old 06-19-2019, 09:12 PM   #25
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I’ve had too many issues with smaller tapcons stripping, plastic anchors always hold tight even in soft block.

When it comes to installing straps, I drill the hole before putting the strap on. Then I push in the anchor, install the strap, and screw it down.

For what it’s worth, you can install the anchor through the strap, or more commonly, through the back of a box that you are attaching to the wall.
When I worked in a plant they supplied me with tapcons so that's what I used. Now that I'm on my own its plastic anchors most of the time. Coz they work.

Never had the head of a #10 snap off when when it bottoms out.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:31 PM   #26
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I heard a funny but sad story yesterday. I was talking with a licensed electrician who hung many TVs. Consumer Affairs licensing found out and gave him a summons for not having a Home Improvement License along with his electrical license. I guess they need the money.
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:43 PM   #27
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I heard a funny but sad story yesterday. I was talking with a licensed electrician who hung many TVs. Consumer Affairs licensing found out and gave him a summons for not having a Home Improvement License along with his electrical license. I guess they need the money.
I’m safe. It was in a restaurant .
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Old 06-20-2019, 04:23 AM   #28
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I don't like tapcon screws. The bigger tapcon bolts are pretty good. But I don't like tapcons.

If you don't blow out the hole, they tend to snap off. Sometimes it's no big deal, you can just move the strap over a half an inch. Sometimes, like when it's the fourth hole mounting a big enclosure, it's a much bigger headache. They usually don't turn well with a hand screwdriver, you need a nutdriver bit or a tiny socket.

I also don't like their ugly blue coating.

Plastic anchors are very good, there is that extra step but in most cases it's not much in the big picture. You can use whatever fastener you want, pan head, flat head, hex washer, square drive, etc.

If you really want to go fast, the nail pin anchors are my choice. No switching bits, you drill the pilot with the drill and drive the pin with a hammer. They are strong. Some surfaces you don't want to be swinging a hammer around though. And if you have to remove one, there is usually a lot of swearing.

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Old 06-20-2019, 07:54 AM   #29
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I don't like tapcon screws. The bigger tapcon bolts are pretty good. But I don't like tapcons.

If you don't blow out the hole, they tend to snap off. Sometimes it's no big deal, you can just move the strap over a half an inch. Sometimes, like when it's the fourth hole mounting a big enclosure, it's a much bigger headache. They usually don't turn well with a hand screwdriver, you need a nutdriver bit or a tiny socket.

I also don't like their ugly blue coating.

Plastic anchors are very good, there is that extra step but in most cases it's not much in the big picture. You can use whatever fastener you want, pan head, flat head, hex washer, square drive, etc.

If you really want to go fast, the nail pin anchors are my choice. No switching bits, you drill the pilot with the drill and drive the pin with a hammer. They are strong. Some surfaces you don't want to be swinging a hammer around though. And if you have to remove one, there is usually a lot of swearing.

I make too many mistakes to use nearly irreversible fasteners.

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Old 06-20-2019, 09:05 AM   #30
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I've never tried them but need to take heed.

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I happened to have a 1/2” step bit that came in a set. I never used it until this little job and it was perfect.
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:18 PM   #31
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I make too many mistakes to use nearly irreversible fasteners.
Well not quite that bad. You use a cat's paw type nail puller to remove the nail, then drill out the mushroom.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:45 PM   #32
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I vote for plastic anchors as well. 99% of commercial work utilizes them in block and concrete construction. Tapcons and hammer pins are uncommon here.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:38 PM   #33
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I used to use Tapcons and hammer-drives.... Until I found out how cheap the plastic anchors are.
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:54 AM   #34
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I hate tapcons. Plastic anchors are best, easiest, cheapest and hold really well. I like the Hilti ones the best, but they all work fine.


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Old 06-24-2019, 09:04 AM   #35
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On a few old jobs where we are doing demo, I come across every once in a while some wooden anchors. Not sure if there were actual anchors as we know today, or just small pieces of shim material.

Despite the obvious issue that you would think of the wood rotting or drying out, many of them are still holding fine today...

Now I have to admit I don't think I would hang a 50lb TV off them, but they most seem to working fine when I do come across them.

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Old 06-24-2019, 09:08 AM   #36
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Plastic anchors are good for hanging pictures...

...and conduit and boxes.
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:12 AM   #37
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Plastic anchors are good for hanging pictures...

...and conduit and boxes.
Well that's exactly it. The normal stuff that we have to attach to masonry.

Just to be clear, no one is saying to use plastic anchors to hang televisions.
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:50 AM   #38
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On a few old jobs where we are doing demo, I come across every once in a while some wooden anchors. Not sure if there were actual anchors as we know today, or just small pieces of shim material.

Despite the obvious issue that you would think of the wood rotting or drying out, many of them are still holding fine today...

Now I have to admit I don't think I would hang a 50lb TV off them, but they most seem to working fine when I do come across them.
My great uncle showed me how to whittle a wood plug anchor when I was a kid, helping him make some shelves in his basement when I was a kid. He had learned to make them in the coal mines. He split a chunk off the end of a 2x4 and whittled the plug to more or less round shape, and drove it in with a hammer.

My experience is just like yours, you'd think the wood would shrink or rot or etc., but I see them all the time in the homes built 1900-1950 and they are usually holding fine.

The NEC specifically prohibits them, does the CEC mention them?
110.13 Mounting and Cooling of Equipment.

(A) Mounting.Electrical equipment shall be firmly secured to the surface on which it is mounted. Wooden plugs driven into holes in masonry, concrete, plaster, or similar materials shall not be used.
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:54 AM   #39
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All plastic anchors do it give the screw something to bite into and to pressurize against the inside of the hole.

In a pinch I have used crap such as toothpicks (I stock them for stripped out wood holes) and little pieces of solid #12 copper with the same good results as plastic anchors.
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Old 06-24-2019, 09:58 AM   #40
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Well that's exactly it. The normal stuff that we have to attach to masonry.

Just to be clear, no one is saying to use plastic anchors to hang televisions.

Not the little ones, the maggots, but the big ones for 1/4" and up lag screws are OK for mounting something like a TV, although I'd prefer the usual zinc lag shields any day.



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