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Old 08-22-2017, 11:44 PM   #41
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It's all about lawyers and blame. If you replace a piece of equipment with new, then your lawyer will kick the ball up the ladder to the manufacturer if something fails. But if you field repair it, you are on the line for it. Insurance companies and lawyers have scared the sense right out of contracting. Sissy contractors know it's just less hassle to tear it out and replace it from a legal standpoint.

That's not always practical, so a niche market exists and is growing daily. I've been in it since I hung out my shingle. Making odd repairs on old stuff is my specialty. Other contractors fall into two categories:

1) Those that don't know how to do it, or,

2) Those too scared of the lawyer to do it.

Being an electrician means knowing that, yes, sometimes a piece of copper tubing from the trash is a valid replacement part, and then using it and going to the next mystery.

Just a sad reflection of the state of the world we live in.
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:38 AM   #42
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In another thread there was an issue with repairing a damaged bus and the inspector/UL Listing issue was raised.

And while I understand the importance of UL and inspectors I do not understand the issue with being able to do field repairs.

We often have to repair switchboards with obsolete relays, GFPE, Phase Failure ETC. I have no issue in doing this and the inspectors never have an issue with our repairs. The options are.

Another company does the job
Replacing the gear and that won't happen for a 4,000 part.
Calling the factory (if available) they do the job for a higher cost and sometimes hire me or my competitor to complete the work.

I feel a QUALIFIED electrician should be able to diagnose the issue determine if a repair is warranted or if replacement is necessary.

If a QUALIFIED electrician cannot do this what to heck makes anyone thing he can do a replacement properly.

UL's field inspection application hasn't changed at all

You've simply dodged that bullet....

~CS~
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:51 AM   #43
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UL's field inspection application hasn't changed at all

You've simply dodged that bullet....

~CS~
Have you ever obtained a UL field inspection, Major Metro Area UL use to serve now they come out of NC, scheduling them is a main and as I said this is inspected if the inspector wants UL to inspect it will will arrange.
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Old 08-23-2017, 08:29 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken steve View Post
UL's field inspection application hasn't changed at all

You've simply dodged that bullet....

~CS~
Have you ever obtained a UL field inspection, Major Metro Area UL use to serve now they come out of NC, scheduling them is a main and as I said this is inspected if the inspector wants UL to inspect it will will arrange.
What's a UL field inspection cost, anyway? Bet it ain't cheap.
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Old 08-23-2017, 09:52 AM   #45
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Inspectors can approve field modifications without UL. If you do a nice job at fabrication, they won't bat an eye at approving it.

I've had to custom fab metal troughs and wireways on a number of occasions. Inspectors have asked about listing but always approve it. Do bulletproof work, get good results.
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:18 AM   #46
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What's a UL field inspection cost, anyway? Bet it ain't cheap.
I am curious about that too, it can't be cheap, and are they reasonable or does it turn a screw in a bus into three trips to your job?
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Old 08-23-2017, 10:48 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by RePhase277 View Post
Inspectors can approve field modifications without UL. If you do a nice job at fabrication, they won't bat an eye at approving it.

I've had to custom fab metal troughs and wireways on a number of occasions. Inspectors have asked about listing but always approve it. Do bulletproof work, get good results.
Words to live by!
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Old 08-23-2017, 11:01 AM   #48
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I wanted to watch that but haven't seen it yet. Do you recall any specifics what regulations forced them to grow?
Oh man, no way...not specifics.

I seem to recall that the railroad wars were some of the ones affected by so-called government regulations. As it turned out some of the people in direct competition with Rockefeller (who controlled much of the complete east west railroads to move his oil for "free") were actually *in* the government.

Then that whole thing with the fake bonds (railroads among the first to issue a "bond") which were *not* regulated by the government, who then felt a need to step in to prevent the practice of controlling the market by buying and selling...essentially...futures.

That's a back and forth political dichotomy right there. Regulations to control one industry, then lack of regulations actually almost put him out of business and the government steps in to "help" Rockefeller.

The ones on Rockefeller interested me the most, but the Westinghouse ones (which I seem to recall were a little light on the Edison/Tesla thing) were interesting too...since I am a Tesla geek.

...not our Telsa...down, boy.
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:51 PM   #49
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What's a UL field inspection cost, anyway? Bet it ain't cheap.
It was over $500, but if one can 'ship' a retrofit to them, it's a tad less....~CS~
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:31 PM   #50
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It's an absolute travesty that they broke up the Bell system and now allow what's happening in telecom / internet, retail, banking, insurance, health care, etc.
Yeah. I loved having to rent my phone. 6 bucks a month for 50 years

Somewhere around 2000, I too a look at my father's bills and realized he was still on an old ass contract and still renting his phone. I got hima a couple new ones for $20 and told the phone company they could have theirs back
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:36 PM   #51
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Yeah. I loved having to rent my phone. 6 bucks a month for 50 years

Somewhere around 2000, I too a look at my father's bills and realized he was still on an old ass contract and still renting his phone. I got hima a couple new ones for $20 and told the phone company they could have theirs back
Museum piece no doubt (rotary phone).
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:10 PM   #52
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Interesting discussion. Donít mind if I chime in.

The whole liberal v conservative crips v bloods nonsense is ancient divide & conquer.

Thereís the way things are supposed to work and the way they actually work in order for those with some degree of power to protect their position. First and foremost your own citizens are your primary enemy. If you donít control them you canít project power against others and wont be around very long. Before that you also have to have a reasonable consensus of the backing of whatever estates already control energy, food, military, media, etc. because if they feel threatened they will gang up against anything working against their interests and invoke the golden rule.

So monopolies in an odd way are created by the government even though regulation should and does inhibit that, when itís not sabotaged - because of the incestuous relationship between corporations and government. Itís seamless. An old example would be AT&T and the NSA. The NSA was and is a legal Ďpartnerí on paper with them going back to the í70ís. (though now, under the guise of Ďnational securityí, every tech giant is a partner).

For the past 40 years no bill has been introduced or passed that has been written by your senator or congressperson regardless if their name is on it. These tomes are drafted & delivered prepackaged by lobbyists.

Discussing how things are supposed to, or should, work cuts off any resolution at the knees if it ignores the relationships that work against common interests.
Speaking of common interests - regardless of what party you affiliate with the AFP party outspends them all. Meaning that if your partyís members, who spend all day on the phone soliciting, take money from billionaires and corporations then, for the most part, we actually belong to and support the Koch's AFP party.
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