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Old 02-19-2018, 03:27 PM   #81
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If you never meg anything how would you know this?
I have 3, difference is that I know when to use them. Never been used on a resi job.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:27 PM   #82
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I posed this question before and here it is again.

I'm agreeing with Hackworks here...If it was reversed and you
were the EC that got the boot after rough-in and another EC takes
over the Finish , P&S , fires it up and 3 weeks later the place
burns down ...Fire Marshal determines "electrical"...

Here come the lawyers. If they came your way would you then say
...Yeah...I roughed it in ...I guess I'll take this one on the chin?

H**l no you wouldn't! Of course not.
Exactly. All the first EC has to say is that the work was incomplete and he didn't get a chance to finish it properly. That liability is on the second EC who came in and took over the job.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:27 PM   #83
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What we need now is for someone to bring up the stitch in time crap.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:30 PM   #84
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I have 3, difference is that I know when to use them. Never been used on a resi job.
From the negative way you talk about meggers I didn't think you'd own ONE!

I'd worry more about a resi (romex) job than MC or EMT job.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:35 PM   #85
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From the negative way you talk about meggers I didn't think you'd own ONE!

I'd worry more about a resi (romex) job than MC or EMT job.
More faults with MC than any other wiring method. Mainly from the dolts that are to goo to use a MC cutter and think they can use their dykes.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:13 PM   #86
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Around here, dykes on MC is a firing offense.

The AHJ actually FLIP OUT if they detect it.

No Roto-Split = You can't even walk on to the job.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:32 PM   #87
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1. Clamps/staples too tight

2. Nail in a wire/cable

3. Bad cable

4. Wire/cable damaged by plumber's torch use

5. Roofing screw through cable/emt

All things I have seen short out wiring.

Things are starting to add up in my head, and this job may simply not be worth it. What I have seen of the wiring, and what I have heard about the people doing it... yeah, I dunno about this.

Plus, the HO (who is the one running this show, not an EC), is coming across as being a bit too cheap for my liking.

Oh, and I don't own a megger (yet), so that test is off the table.
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:52 PM   #88
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My jurisdiction. I write the scope of work on the permit application and it gets processed. The inspector can only inspect what is on the permit. I guess if there are holes then somebody can ask questions, maybe hold up an occupancy permit if it is determined that a thorough electrical inspection was not performed.
Here are the checkbox options for a request for inspection here in BC:


- Work-in-Progress Assessment

- 180-Day Safety Check Assessment

- Final Assessment

- Rough Wiring-Complete Assessment

- Rough Wiring-Partial Assessment

- Service Connection Assessment

When applying for a permit online, there is a space on the screen to detail the work that you are doing.

As for the liability issues of finishing a job that someone else has started... I honestly don't know where the line is as far as who is responsible for what.

What I have gleaned from the HO is that three young guys were doing the work, and that they may or may not have all been apprentices. Apparently they were left unsupervised by the guy who was hired by the HO.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:01 PM   #89
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Things are starting to add up in my head, and this job may simply not be worth it. What I have seen of the wiring, and what I have heard about the people doing it... yeah, I dunno about this.

Plus, the HO (who is the one running this show, not an EC), is coming across as being a bit too cheap for my liking.

Oh, and I don't own a megger (yet), so that test is off the table.
Good enough for basic wiring:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Supco-M50...&wl13=&veh=sem
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:07 PM   #90
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Here are the checkbox options for a request for inspection here in BC:


- Work-in-Progress Assessment

- 180-Day Safety Check Assessment

- Final Assessment

- Rough Wiring-Complete Assessment

- Rough Wiring-Partial Assessment

- Service Connection Assessment

When applying for a permit online, there is a space on the screen to detail the work that you are doing.

As for the liability issues of finishing a job that someone else has started... I honestly don't know where the line is as far as who is responsible for what.

What I have gleaned from the HO is that three young guys were doing the work, and that they may or may not have all been apprentices. Apparently they were left unsupervised by the guy who was hired by the HO.
Those options are for inspections, not for different permits. The permit is for the job, which also includes what the prior contractor did.

This is not only about liability in case something goes wrong such as fire/shock. It's also about getting it to work in the first place. No one, not the inspector, AHJ, or the homeowner, is going to accept lights and outlets not working because you say that you were only there to install the lights and outlets and the issues with the wiring was the prior ECs responsibility. When you pull that permit for the job you are responsible to get it working correctly and safely.

As you said in your earlier post, this customer seems cheap, which means even without the extra liability this would be a crappy job. Walk away.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:25 PM   #91
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More faults with MC than any other wiring method. Mainly from the dolts that are to goo to use a MC cutter and think they can use their dykes.
and no ant shorts
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:30 PM   #92
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customer is coming across as "cheap"?

Hate to toot my own horn , but did i not suggest this
earlier as 1 of 2 reasons an HO cuts EC off after rough-in?
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:46 PM   #93
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Cheap customer makes all other discussion meaningless.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:54 PM   #94
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Cheap customer makes all other discussion meaningless.
Yes...that's when i look at the imagenary wrist watch
I have on and go..."ah! Jeez! Look at the time!...I have
got to..."
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:05 PM   #95
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What I have gleaned from the HO is that three young guys were doing the work, and that they may or may not have all been apprentices. Apparently they were left unsupervised by the guy who was hired by the HO.
That should be enough info for you to walk.

I bet there were issues with payment as well.

Actually, you should run!
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:40 AM   #96
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More faults with MC than any other wiring method. Mainly from the dolts that are to goo to use a MC cutter and think they can use their dykes.
I'm that good.

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Old 02-20-2018, 02:08 AM   #97
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That should be enough info for you to walk.

I bet there were issues with payment as well.

Actually, you should run!
I had done some math last night, and sent the guy an estimate. That was before I had read all your responses.

He called me today, and said it was too much (the guy who did the rough in, and apparently did shoddy work, quoted him less to do the finish work). I didn't flinch, and said that was the price. I took into account extra time to troubleshoot faulty circuits, just to give me some leeway.

He gave me a couple of weeks to call him, in case I change my mind.

Nope.
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Old 02-20-2018, 03:09 AM   #98
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I had done some math last night, and sent the guy an estimate. That was before I had read all your responses.

He called me today, and said it was too much (the guy who did the rough in, and apparently did shoddy work, quoted him less to do the finish work). I didn't flinch, and said that was the price. I took into account extra time to troubleshoot faulty circuits, just to give me some leeway.

He gave me a couple of weeks to call him, in case I change my mind.

Nope.
You should punch him.
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Old 02-20-2018, 04:48 AM   #99
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I've spoken to multiple building departments here about this, they were very clear that the entire job was on me and I was responsible for everything, and I should inspect it all myself and replace anything that needed it. There is no "final" permit. The permit you are pulling is for the entire job, which is now your job.
Reaching back a bit - I understand and agree that you are responsible for the whole job if you pick up the permit, but that's not exactly the same as liable for the other party's work. As @99cents points out you are always managing liability and dealing with prior work. In this case the responsibility for the permit is manageable, IMO.

Now the things I am going to ask for are going to be rejected if the homeowner is really just a chiseler looking to save a few bucks by finding some bottomfeeder to finish the job. That is exactly what's supposed to happen, you weed them out. And obviously I would pass if it isn't a potentially lucrative job.

A few points for the agreement:

Explicit disclaimer, exemption from any warranty, and waiver of liability for prior work.

Not responsible for any deficiencies, violations, etc. discovered by the AHJ inspector on prior work, these deficiencies to be resolved at additional cost and will affect the completion of work.

Before scheduling trim out / completion of job, I'll have to examine the existing work on a T&M basis. (This is the part that will scare off all the chiselers.) This is where I'd do a visual inspection, load calc if it's iffy, trace everything, megger everything, figure out every switch.

@Islander - if you don't have a megger, add the $500 for a megger into your price. Simple. This isn't the kind of work where not having the needed tools is an excuse for not using them. You either get your hands on the right equipment to do the job or you pass. As an employee, it's OK to do your best with what's on hand. As a contractor, that does not fly.

This is where I'd find any time bombs or Aramaic left by @lighterup etc. My goal here is to find what can be found, and make it so I can zip through trim out at the usual pace. Any problems or issues discovered must be addressed (and paid for) before trim out.

If there's a problem there could be a lawsuit but lets face it the American system is anyone can sue anyone for anything and they might win. But I think with the above in place you're fairly well protected unless there's some anti-contractor law in place in your locale.
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Old 02-20-2018, 08:04 AM   #100
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I had done some math last night, and sent the guy an estimate. That was before I had read all your responses.

He called me today, and said it was too much (the guy who did the rough in, and apparently did shoddy work, quoted him less to do the finish work). I didn't flinch, and said that was the price. I took into account extra time to troubleshoot faulty circuits, just to give me some leeway.

He gave me a couple of weeks to call him, in case I change my mind.

Nope.
You should call him back in a few weeks and quote him a higher price.

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