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Old 09-19-2017, 10:04 PM   #1
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Default Landing neutrals on a ground bar

In a main panel in which the neutral and ground is bonded, we often land the grounds on the neutral bar. However, you're not allowed to land the neutrals on the ground bar since all that current would have to pass thru the bonding screw.

I thought there was a provision that allowed you to land neutrals on the ground bar if you ran a #4 copper conductor to it, but I can't find that in the code.

Anyone know anything about this?
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:12 PM   #2
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:15 PM   #3
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:17 PM   #4
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Well if it's a 100a panel seems fine to me you are creating a jumper just like in most panels only difference is you installing this one.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
I thought there was a provision that allowed you to land neutrals on the ground bar if you ran a #4 copper conductor to it, but I can't find that in the code.

Anyone know anything about this?
We can't do any of that up here ... grounds on ground, neutrals all on neutral bar.

But do you mean if you run a #4 between the 2 bars ?
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Old 09-20-2017, 04:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtnut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HackWork View Post
I thought there was a provision that allowed you to land neutrals on the ground bar if you ran a #4 copper conductor to it, but I can't find that in the code.

Anyone know anything about this?

We can't do any of that up here ... grounds on ground, neutrals all on neutral bar.

But do you mean if you run a #4 between the 2 bars ?
That's because technically our panels are sub panels once you leave the service entrance enclosure.

The next question is what size of numerous be required...
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Old 09-20-2017, 05:58 AM   #7
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I'd start here Hax>>>
250.28 Main Bonding Jumper and System Bonding
Jumper.
~CS~
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtnut View Post
We can't do any of that up here ... grounds on ground, neutrals all on neutral bar.
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Originally Posted by triden View Post
That's because technically our panels are sub panels once you leave the service entrance enclosure.
Yes, I remember that from another discussion. In Canada the enclosure with the feeders that is required is where the neutral/ground bond is made, the rest of the panel is separate and because of that the neutrals and grounds have to be separated. So it seems as if you would be able to land grounds on the neutral bar if not for the requirement to enclose the feeders.

Quote:
But do you mean if you run a #4 between the 2 bars ?
Yes, exactly.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:09 AM   #9
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Here is kinda an example of what I am talking about. This is a panel with an isolated neutral bar along with a ground bar. But you can connect the ground bar to the neutral bar with a large enough bus-bar and strap to use the ground bar as a neutral bar.

Landing neutrals on a ground bar-screen-shot-2017-09-20-8.03.51-am.png


Now if you look, the listing actually shows that ground bar also being a neutral bar now (and the neutral bar being a ground bar, of course):

Landing neutrals on a ground bar-screen-shot-2017-09-20-8.05.42-am.png
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:34 AM   #10
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I was trying to figure out what you were talking about in a metermain, but yours are not combined like ours. It's already bonded in ours
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:27 AM   #11
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I was trying to figure out what you were talking about in a metermain, but yours are not combined like ours. It's already bonded in ours
Even in your panel, if you add a ground bar you cant land neutrals on it unless you run a jumper to it from the neutral bar. My question is how to size that jumper. According to code.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:01 PM   #12
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IMO,It doesn't have anything to do with the screw but rather it has to do with the enclosure being used to carry current.

Quote:
202(B) Continuity. The continuity of a grounded conductor
shall not depend on a connection to a metallic enclosure,
raceway, or cable armor.
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Old 09-20-2017, 12:02 PM   #13
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The size of the jumper conductor would have to be sized to at least the load of the neutral connected to the ground bar then it would be permitted
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