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Old 08-11-2017, 05:45 AM   #1
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Default Looking to I.D. a dumbwaiter control panel manufacturer (pic attached)

Hello,

I'm on a restaurant job where the dumbwaiter was never installed right. Coming out of the control panel of this 2-stop dumbwaiter are two wiring harnesses, both with identical color-coding.

Everything in the shaft is 18 gauge white wiring, and door switches are removed, the lower level limit switch does nothing, and to use the unit one has to engage in a donkey-backward method of switching off power ...

I'd like to get the lower level stop switch working at the minimum, and rewire all the low voltage in the perfect world.

Does anyone recognize this panel? I've downloaded similar wiring schematics but have not found one exactly like the unit pictured.

It uses a ľ HP motor, 120V, but had a Cherry D48X micro switch on the lower level. The unit will not budge unless LL is wired N.C., and right now the switch is removed, and the wires nutted together.

https://avatarhost.files.wordpress.c...dumbwaiter.jpg

https://avatarhost.files.wordpress.c...resolution.jpg

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Old 08-11-2017, 05:57 AM   #2
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I would put a nuclear hold on this project if i were you.
First, the elevator guy wont touch it and said it was installed wrong that means you know about that and want to put it in service anyway.

Second, what if the door interlocks fail and someone looks in the hoist way and gets their neck crushed or pinched.

I dont thing you are doing them a favor by working on this project for them.

Personally, I would run. My insurance wouldn't cover me working on it either , does yours?
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:02 AM   #3
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Good points all. I'll inform the owner of her liability on this issue and stay away from it.

I've got to stop "helping" out these tavern and restaurant owners. They have me repairing their $8,000 Vulcan range the other day. That is a dedicated trade, and I found out the hard way why no one wants to work on it. Bent oven door, non-repairable, etc etc etc.

Give me a 20 story apartment with water pressure issues any day.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:11 AM   #4
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Good points all. I'll inform the owner of her liability on this issue and stay away from it.

I've got to stop "helping" out these tavern and restaurant owners. They have me repairing their $8,000 Vulcan range the other day. That is a dedicated trade, and I found out the hard way why no one wants to work on it. Bent oven door, non-repairable, etc etc etc.

Give me a 20 story apartment with water pressure issues any day.
I met this nice young lady at a restaurant working on a stove and all she does is higher end Wolf, Vulcan and a very few select residential brands.
They get $200 per hour when they send them out.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:13 AM   #5
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Philly prices for Elmer Schultz: $173 + tax for the first 1/2 hour, $106 per hour billed quarterly after that.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:21 AM   #6
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Philly prices for Elmer Schultz: $173 + tax for the first 1/2 hour, $106 per hour billed quarterly after that.
Thats pretty much electrical contracting service work here in the South. I would imagine the NE would be a bit more.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:26 AM   #7
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Elmer Schultz is a commercial kitchen repair outfit. The bigger plumbing firms are billing over $2,000 for a residential water heater.

Thanks again for your insight. I'll hand the owner a letter informing her of the dangers of continued dumbwaiter operation.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:31 AM   #8
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Elmer Schultz is a commercial kitchen repair outfit. The bigger plumbing firms are billing over $2,000 for a residential water heater.

Thanks again for your insight. I'll hand the owner a letter informing her of the dangers of continued dumbwaiter operation.
I would let them know that you took a look at it, didn't touch a thing, and suggest they keep it out of service until it can be properly upgraded by a dumbwaiter contractor.
That way, if someone has an injury from it, you should be out of it.
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:35 AM   #9
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Why is a plumber doing this?
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:41 AM   #10
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Why is a plumber doing this?
Well, probably because I'm either the smartest tradesperson she knows or the stupidest tradesperson she knows.

After taking a good think on the liability issue of working on a dumbwaiter with no basement door, and imagining a drunk dishwasher curled up in there with a 200 box dropping upon them, I've got to admit, it is a liability nightmare.

Glad I'm staying clear of it.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:11 AM   #11
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I realize that "people" elevator wiring is a specialty but does that extend to dumb waiters too? It's probably in the code book somewhere but I'm on vacation and not near mine.

Asking for a friend.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:22 AM   #12
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I realize that "people" elevator wiring is a specialty but does that extend to dumb waiters too? It's probably in the code book somewhere but I'm on vacation and not near mine.

Asking for a friend.
Thanks for asking. After some checking, and after I decided to stay away from this job and stick to loafing about with a 24" pipe wrench in my hands, I did discover ASME and fire codes cover most of the rules, but there are no doubt even more.

On this nightmare, there is no lower level door with interlock, and no interlock controls on the upper level door. Also the "fireproofing" of the shaft seems incomplete, but it may make code.

With the right material, this "kit" might be brought into compliance by a licensed professional for about $3,000.

There is no clearance for a swinging door on the lower level, so the original installer probably eliminated it. The whole job is a shame. I'm walking away from it.

If I lose my business, it will be from flooding out a high rise apartment with a burst 160 p.s.i. water riser. Not from replacing a switch on a dumbwaiter.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:24 AM   #13
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Regulations governing construction and operation

Building codes have regulated the construction and operation of dumbwaiters in parts of North America since the 19th century. Modern dumbwaiters in the United States and Canada must comply with American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) codes and, therefore, have features similar to those of passenger elevators. The construction, operation and usage of dumbwaiters varies widely according to country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbwaiter
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:28 AM   #14
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1) That controller is completely homemade. It even comes with its own 4-pin trailer connectors

2) If the plumber is willing to work on this thing, can you imagine the hacked trail of other electrical stuff left in his wake?
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:54 AM   #15
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Notice where the green wires are landed?
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:57 AM   #16
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Notice where the green wires are landed?
No. Where?
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:58 AM   #17
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2) If the plumber is willing to work on this thing, can you imagine the hacked trail of other electrical stuff left in his wake?
Hey, I resemble that!

Except when the food disposal, a $4700 Red Goat, has to be wired correctly. The Amtrol booster pumps, they cost $2,000 ... I try to show up sober for those jobs.

I swear, Inspector, I did not run natural down the alley into that other building with a garden hose. That was someone else
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:04 AM   #18
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Notice where the green wires are landed?
Now that you mention it, YES!

Lol!
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:15 AM   #19
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Wow those are trailer connectors.

If I still worked for the city bldg dept and caught a plumber working on that I'd cite him for unlicensed contracting with a mandatory court appearance and copy the file to his licensing board.

Are you nucking futs?
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:02 AM   #20
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