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Old 06-07-2016, 03:41 PM   #1
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Default Lotus LED Lights

For those of you who use the Lotus lights, especially the Canadians who have had access to these for so much longer than us, do you always use the ultra low profile models? Or only when needed?

Second, have you ever had a customer complain about the color temperature?

Thanks.
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:59 PM   #2
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Our company mainly uses the low profile ones. Almost all of the competing brands that make a similar product make exclusively low profile ones.

However if a customer is looking for extra light or if you know that the space is available, the 12w ones are nice.

If you need the extra light you could just use the 6" or 8" ones though.

I've only put in a handful of the 4k ones, as almost everybody wants the 3k ones. It's what people are familiar with.

Cost, is also another thing to consider, as the 12w ones are likely more.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:02 PM   #3
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I put in LED retro fit trims that were 3000K and the customer didn't like it. Normally I don't install LED, I let the customer do it themselves if they want. And this time that I did it I got bit in the ass.

So I would worry about using anything higher than 2700K.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:29 PM   #4
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I wasn't aware they had more than one size. Good to know.
2nd last job where I used these I powered up 2 and gave the customer
the choice - he chose the 6000K (or were they 6500K)...
Last job I used one of the knock-offs, which I don't remember the name
of, and made the choice myself to use the 6000K type. Don't know if
the customer really noticed the "whiteness" of the light but they told
me many times how much they liked them. On the downside, they're
on dimmer and flicker occasionally
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:35 PM   #5
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I put in LED retro fit trims that were 3000K and the customer didn't like it. Normally I don't install LED, I let the customer do it themselves if they want. And this time that I did it I got bit in the ass.

So I would worry about using anything higher than 2700K.
I can't speak to lotus lights, but we put in 2700k and 3000k LED stuff all the time. If we are installing cans we provide LED lamps. We buy 2700k lamps when we can, and 3000k when we cant. All the ucab led stuff we put in is 3000k and we don't get any complaints about that either.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:50 PM   #6
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I can't speak to lotus lights, but we put in 2700k and 3000k LED stuff all the time. If we are installing cans we provide LED lamps. We buy 2700k lamps when we can, and 3000k when we cant. All the ucab led stuff we put in is 3000k and we don't get any complaints about that either.
The ones I used were the normal 6" Sylvania LED trims that Home Depot sells for $20.

I kinda agreed with the homeowner, the 3000K's were very whitish and doctor's office looking. I changed them out to 2700K's which were better, but she still wasn't that happy. It wasn't warm enough for her living room.

Maybe it's just the Sylvanias.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:55 PM   #7
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Valid. I have mainly done cans in kitchens or showers lately so maybe the 3000k is more appreciated there. The last batch of living room cans I did were with incandescent BR30s.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:14 PM   #8
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For an 8' ceiling I put in 4" low profile warm white spaced about 6' apart. Higher ceilings I would go with 6" low profile. I don't give customers too many options. It just confuses things.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:17 PM   #9
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Customers have never complained about color temp. LED looks different than incandescent anyway.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:20 PM   #10
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For an 8' ceiling I put in 4" low profile warm white spaced about 6' apart. Higher ceilings I would go with 6" low profile. I don't give customers too many options. It just confuses things.
So you use the low profile all the time?

That's pretty cool, just being able to put them anywhere without worrying about the joists.

I need to find a good onlin vendor since my local supply houses still don't carry Lotus.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:30 PM   #11
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So you use the low profile all the time?

That's pretty cool, just being able to put them anywhere without worrying about the joists.

I need to find a good onlin vendor since my local supply houses still don't carry Lotus.
All the time. I rarely bang in cans anymore.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:35 PM   #12
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All the time. I rarely bang in cans anymore.
I figured it was better to use the deeper Lotus lights in most places and the low profiles only in some situations.

But I like your idea of using o lay the low profiles everywhere.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:53 PM   #13
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You will be surprised at how much punch they have. I know a plumber who uses one as a trouble light .
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:07 PM   #14
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One more question, it seems as if you wouldn't be able to fit the driver up into the ceiling if you had a joist running thru the center of the hole when installing a 4" light. Have you run into that issue yet?
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:13 PM   #15
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The ones I used were the normal 6" Sylvania LED trims that Home Depot sells for $20.

I kinda agreed with the homeowner, the 3000K's were very whitish and doctor's office looking. I changed them out to 2700K's which were better, but she still wasn't that happy. It wasn't warm enough for her living room.

Maybe it's just the Sylvanias.
She's a picky bitch. 2700 K is the color of a standard 60 watt incandescent. Any "warmer" and you'd have to put in a red bulb.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:23 PM   #16
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We have been using the low profile LED fixtures for a few years now. We started with the Lotus branded ones, almost exclusively 4" low profile. Recently, the supply house started carrying the same style of fixture but made by Standard. The price point is lower, so we have switched to using those. Quality is about the same, with the Lotus lights having a better connection method from driver to fixture.
Even on a job with open ceiling joists, we just rough in coils of wire and cut the pots in after drywall. It's so much easier to lay out a room without worrying about where the joists are in relation to your can locations. Rough in is very fast, no cans to bang on and no connections to make. Finish takes a bit longer, but I still find it easier and faster than traditional cans. In a rework situation, I can't imagine using the old cans with the push out clips anymore. The low profile LED lights are just way too easy.
A joist can sit inline with the hole, as long as it's not dead center. The driver needs to be able to fit past, and since it's almost the same width as the fixture a joist on center would be an issue. It's happened, but pretty rare.
I have never had a complaint about colour temperature. I use the 3k ones for resi jobs, and the 4k for most commercial.

Heck, they're even damp location rated. We put them in showers and soffits all the time.

If it's something you are considering, it's definitely worth looking in to.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:27 PM   #17
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I'm thinking that I should get some 20' low voltage wiring extensions that Lotus sells. This way if I cut out a hole on the joist and can't fit the driver thru, I can snake over low voltage wiring from the nearest other light and put both drivers in that hole.
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:57 PM   #18
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I have had situations where you hit a TGI Joist right in the middle and have to go into the attic to wire the driver, but the light will still go in. You can also cut the sides off some brands drivers if they have wings with mounting holes, which saves an inch or so of width when needed.

I find it hard to believe someone didn't like 3k colour, most companies making these puppies dont make anything lower than 3k.

With the flickering - be sure your dimmers are led rated, and be sure to set the low adjustment. Although we also have had trouble with the cheap leviton slide dimmers. Lutron Diva is our go-to if there is dimmer trouble.

As majorbrendan said, most are damp location rated, and some wet location.

I've tried the Lotus, Liteline Slim, NDR razor, and one other brand. The NDR's seem to be the lowest cost, and easiest to put it because they include push-in connectors instead of having to marrette in the small junction box

As you can tell I love these things, and don't understand why anyone would ever bang in cans again. Same cost, i'd say its a slight labour cut, and you can put them anywhere.

Only downside - no gimble (yet)
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:12 PM   #19
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I have had situations where you hit a TGI Joist right in the middle and have to go into the attic to wire the driver, but the light will still go in. You can also cut the sides off some brands drivers if they have wings with mounting holes, which saves an inch or so of width when needed.

I find it hard to believe someone didn't like 3k colour, most companies making these puppies dont make anything lower than 3k.

With the flickering - be sure your dimmers are led rated, and be sure to set the low adjustment. Although we also have had trouble with the cheap leviton slide dimmers. Lutron Diva is our go-to if there is dimmer trouble.

As majorbrendan said, most are damp location rated, and some wet location.

I've tried the Lotus, Liteline Slim, NDR razor, and one other brand. The NDR's seem to be the lowest cost, and easiest to put it because they include push-in connectors instead of having to marrette in the small junction box

As you can tell I love these things, and don't understand why anyone would ever bang in cans again. Same cost, i'd say its a slight labour cut, and you can put them anywhere.

Only downside - no gimble (yet)
Lotus makes a 3" gimbal: http://www.lotusledlights.com/recess.../3-inch-gimbal
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Old 06-07-2016, 09:30 PM   #20
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When you guys are roughing in a house with no attic access, or the first floor, do you just leave your pigtails in the ceiling and reach up an get them at trim after cutting the holes? We did the last one that way but had to make a map so we'd know where they were at trim. On another one they insulated the ceiling with spray in foam so we used the rough in plates that Lotus sells and left the tails hanging down. We haven't trimmed that one yet but stopped by and the drywallers are doing a pretty good job of cutting them out. We warned them that the holes had to be precise with no damage to the wire. The rough in plate gives them a solid circle to run the rotozip around.
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