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Old 02-28-2015, 01:05 PM   #41
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WalMart should not be selling pots and pans. Cooking is for chefs. Making my own meals can cause food poisoning.

I shouldn't be able to buy my own vehicles cause I might hurt myself (and others) driving one. That's best left to chauffeurs.

All OTC medicines should be banned. I may kill myself taking cough syrup incorrectly.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:11 PM   #42
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WalMart should not be selling pots and pans. Cooking is for chefs. Making my own meals can cause food poisoning.

I shouldn't be able to buy my own vehicles cause I might hurt myself (and others) driving one. That's best left to chauffeurs.

All OTC medicines should be banned. I may kill myself taking cough syrup incorrectly.
You shouldn't be on the inter web. Al Gore didn't give you permission.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:13 PM   #43
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The idea that somebody else might buy your house in the future so you should do something special now is pretty silly.

Should we have to take a test in order to work on our car because somebody else might buy it?

What about my toaster? Do I have to take a test before repairing it because I might sell it on eBay to somebody else? That might sound extreme, but it still the same thing.

If there was an epidemic out there then I might support the idea. But there is really no big problem. If you really want to save lives, ban extension cords. That would reduce fires, injuries, and death from household electric FAR more than testing homeowners would.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:16 PM   #44
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What he did should have required a meter upgrade. Most power companies here make me provide work order number to get the meter.

Secondly, had this been a smart meter he pulled, they would have shown up about 15 minutes later demanding a permit, amd threatened prosecuting him for cutting the meter tag.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:18 PM   #45
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You shouldn't be on the inter web. Al Gore didn't give you permission.
Yes he did. I invented Al Gore.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:19 PM   #46
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What he did should have required a meter upgrade. Most power companies here make me provide work order number to get the meter.

Secondly, had this been a smart meter he pulled, they would have shown up about 15 minutes later demanding a permit, amd threatened prosecuting him for cutting the meter tag.
They don't do that here. I pull smart meters all the time, PSE&G is happy not to have to come out, they save millions by having the ECs do everything.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:50 PM   #47
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You can't get parts for your own furnace unless you're an HVAC tech or have your gas licence. Yet transformers and 600v panels are sold tight over the counter.
Thats kind of what I was getting at. They have restrictions for that stuff, so why haven't they touched electrical? You can do just as much damage.

My beef with the the DIY stuff, is just blatant disregard for safety. You wanna watch a YT vid on how to rewire your house and put your life in danger, fine. But what happens when you move out, or its a rental property, and it burns to the ground?

I think the working on your car/house comparison isn't really a good one. If you're buying a used car from someone, anyone who isnt an idiot is going to have a mechanic check it out, or have enough knowledge about vehicles themselves. Its pretty easy to tell if there is an issue with a car. Nothing is really hidden. With wiring, most people arent versed enough to see a potential problem, and even if they hire a HI, or a EC, we still can't see whats behind walls...
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:58 PM   #48
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They don't do that here. I pull smart meters all the time, PSE&G is happy not to have to come out, they save millions by having the ECs do everything.
Actually, they don't save millions at all. THEY MISS OUT on millions. That's money they could have charged the customer, and missed their opportunity. Rec, will blatantly prosecute you for cutting a Meter tag.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:59 PM   #49
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Actually, they don't save millions at all. THEY MISS OUT on millions. That's money they could have charged the customer, and missed their opportunity. Rec, will blatantly prosecute you for cutting a Meter tag.
No, they save millions, just like I said.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:05 PM   #50
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Thats kind of what I was getting at. They have restrictions for that stuff, so why haven't they touched electrical? You can do just as much damage.

My beef with the the DIY stuff, is just blatant disregard for safety. You wanna watch a YT vid on how to rewire your house and put your life in danger, fine. But what happens when you move out, or its a rental property, and it burns to the ground?

I think the working on your car/house comparison isn't really a good one. If you're buying a used car from someone, anyone who isnt an idiot is going to have a mechanic check it out, or have enough knowledge about vehicles themselves. Its pretty easy to tell if there is an issue with a car. Nothing is really hidden. With wiring, most people arent versed enough to see a potential problem, and even if they hire a HI, or a EC, we still can't see whats behind walls...
You are manufacturing danger out of thin air.

No matter how much we try to say that homeowners and handyman do dangerous work, the end result is simply not the chaos and catastrophe that some people like to believe it is.

Like I said, if you truly care about people's welfare, you would be promoting the ban of extension cords. But the reality of it is that you're motives are selfish and you're more worried about stopping homeowners from doing their own work in order to give you more work.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:07 PM   #51
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No, they save millions, just like I said.
Byllchit. Bill twice the hourly rate for the guy showing up.



Yeah, that's losing money. Whatever
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:08 PM   #52
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Byllchit. Bill twice the hourly rate for the guy showing up.



Yeah, that's losing money. Whatever
I don't really know what you're talking about.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:14 PM   #53
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National Grid has the same policy as PSEG. They want contractors to do as much as possible, including pulling meters and cut and reconnect. It does save them millions in labor costs. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of reality.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:15 PM   #54
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I think the working on your car/house comparison isn't really a good one.
It's a very good one but it has nothing to do with selling or buying a used car. What it's about is that DIYers wiring problems are most likely to only cause injury or death to the DIYer and his / her family, a DIYer mistake on a ton and half rolling missile has a good chance to take out a number of innocent people.

Regardless, it would be a very sad state of affairs if DIYers (and we are all DIYers at some level) were completely prohibited from being allowed to do these things


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Old 02-28-2015, 02:16 PM   #55
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Here the POCO does not charge to come out and repair or remove what belongs to them. So here they do not make any money to send out someone to pull a meter, disconnect/connect the service drop.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:18 PM   #56
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There should be no restrictions on the sale of any kind of material whatsoever, nor should homeowners be required to get permits and have inspections.

I have done lots of DIY plumbing and HVAC work (including adding a laundry sink, outdoor faucets, etc) and repaired my boiler several times including the gas line. I've also replaced two water hears. I have never gotten a permit for any of that work nor do ever intend to get permits for DIY work.

Throw all the stones at me that you wish, but at least I'm being consistent.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:19 PM   #57
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National Grid has the same policy as PSEG. They want contractors to do as much as possible, including pulling meters and cut and reconnect. It does save them millions in labor costs. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of reality.
Yup, same here.


Here is how I defeat the really old style meter lock, a PSE&G wiring inspector stopped by that day and saw the meter cover and was impressed. He said he was going to tell other EC's to do that because most of them call him to come unlock this style because they can't get it off themselves.


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Old 02-28-2015, 02:21 PM   #58
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Byllchit. Bill twice the hourly rate for the guy showing up.



Yeah, that's losing money. Whatever
If the poco had to respond to every single service change request, it would mean they would have to hire more lineman at their very high pay and benefit level (all union jobs.) Having us EC's do it means they save that labor. Is that really so hard to understand? When we have a new service that needs connection, they simply send out the trouble man on duty that day.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:22 PM   #59
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National Grid has the same policy as PSEG. They want contractors to do as much as possible, including pulling meters and cut and reconnect. It does save them millions in labor costs. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of reality.
Just shut the **** up if you're gonna spew nonsense. If they charge the customer for a disconnect and reconnect, how would that lose them money? That like saying it would save you money to let other people do half your renovation work. It's total bull****. They do it because they lack manpower, not because it would lose them money.
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Old 02-28-2015, 02:24 PM   #60
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Just shut the **** up if you're gonna spew nonsense. If they charge the customer for a disconnect and reconnect, how would that lose them money? That like saying it would save you money to let other people do half your renovation work. It's total bull****. They do it because they lack manpower, not because it would lose them money.
They don't charge for those services, it's all built into the cost of rates. There's no installation charge for residential new service.
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